Author Topic: Hidden accounts  (Read 1201 times)

Offline caro

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Hidden accounts
« on: February 04, 2007, 12:54 AM »
Am I right in thinking that only Administration may hide their account?

Am I also right in thinking that Administration may work on the mechanics of the list without actually being on the Forum and knowing what is going on?

I don't think anybody should be able to hide their account and lurk anonymously in the background.  However, if an administrator needs to work on the mechanics then I can understand why it might be necessary.

During this whole mess that we have just experienced, there was somebody with a hidden account signed on from time to time.  I would imagine they must have been working on the mechanics of the list and unable to see what was happening or they would have intervened. 

Caroline

Offline Rosebud

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2007, 02:05 PM »
I don't know if it has changed but I have used the Hide my status feature before on another forum. Dont' remember why as I really don't see any reason for anyone to Hide the fact they are here, unless they just have the page loaded and are trying to do something else and don't want to be bothered with people pm'ing them and feeling obligated to respond immediately.

Personally I would'nt mind seeing the featured locked for non-administrative/management members.

Michelle C
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Offline Keeper

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2007, 09:27 AM »
I have responded to this on another topic.  But, will do so one more time.

ONLY Administrators can hide online status.  AND yes, Caroline, there are times when Admins only go in to do the maintenace of the forum and do not open their personal accounts.

All users can hide their email address from everyone EXCEPT the Administrators.  All members can contact each other by instant messaging or by normal email.  For those who are new to the forum, you can find the IM and the Envelope icons on the left under the Avatar area for each member.

Sandra

PS - when guests are just signing on as a member it will appear as GUEST online...but they cannot post until they have returned their request for member status.

Sandra

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Offline Deb

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 09:58 PM »
I have a friend with a system just like this list and what Keeper says is true only people in management can come in as hidden unless they allow the entire membership the same controls. NO way one member can do this.
So what is up here?  I just phoned and asked to be sure and she confirmed this has to be someone with admin controls.
Deb

Offline caro

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2007, 06:36 AM »
There are only two Administrators on this list, one is Sandra, and the other is Micah.  Micah is the expert on the program, but he has been moving house apparently.  My guess is that he was giving one of the new Management team the buttons she needs and just left his computer on.  Management and Administrators can remain logged in indefinitely, so if he didn't actually log out and just left his computer running, he would appear as hidden.  Does that make sense?

Caroline

Offline melissap

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2007, 10:29 AM »
To be honest there are a lot of people who care about corresponding with others who seem to want to hide thier identity - and I do not mean the administrators who are volunteering their time and energy but rather those who are not willing to share any information about them selves and then have expectations with regard to having their right to air their opinion & make no exception to expecting to have access to those who are open and upfront with their contact information.

Many great knowledgable people on this forum are leaving due to the strife that has been created by these members - and if a select few are ruining the site, then I suppose some people will care.

melissa
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Offline Rosebud

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2007, 10:56 AM »
Many great knowledgable people on this forum are leaving due to the strife that has been created by these members - and if a select few are ruining the site, then I suppose some people will care.

melissa

First I would like to say that everyone of us have the power to stop strife. It takes two to tango. What I mean is each one of us, individually, can control the amount of strife/conflict that occurs here. If someone says something that is challenging/argumentative/resentful, in other words if someone posts something that is going to cause strife, Ignore it, Shake your head, take a deep breath and move on, post something positive.

Second, the great knowledgable people you are referring to are not leaving this forum because of the strife/conflict that is here. They are leaving because they are not getting their way. They don't post because they don't like some of the members, or they want certain members to be banned simply because of who they are.

Take a look through the members directory, Look at how many knowledgable breeders registered here and have only spent 3 minutes here, just enough time to find out someone they don't like was a member here. They haven't spent enough time on here to read any of the arguments, just long enough to know who the other members are.

The strife excuse is just that an excuse, they can control the strife by simply ignoring it, but instead they want to get their way and try and control who can be members here.

I'm sorry, but if those great knowledgable people really wanted to help educate newbies then they would simply ignore those that want to argue and keep the topics polite, pleasant, non-confrontational and educational instead of leaving.
Michelle C

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Offline melissap

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2007, 11:00 AM »
Michelle A,

I did not reference you in my post - and I know that you have taken your comments to me personally in the past, so you can continue to contact me privately if you wish yo drag up things that frankly may be your opinion, but are not factual  ;)

Why did you think that this was directed at you any way?? did I put your name on it or address you specifically - NO - I did not.

I do know that I do not want to correspond with those who want to keep their identity hidden. I have every right to draw my boundaries where I see fit - that is not a judgement, but my right to discern who I chat with.

As for ME attacking people - I think not. But I also have a right to deceide who I feel comfortable talking to, as many people have been manipulative & those are games I will not stoop down to other peoples levels.

there have been many people who have been turned off by attacks - and insult is only added to the injury when the attacker keeps there identity hidden.

Melissa
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 11:03 AM by melissap »
Melissa Peterson

Offline Deb

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2007, 11:01 AM »
There are only two Administrators on this list, one is Sandra, and the other is Micah.  Micah is the expert on the program, but he has been moving house apparently.  My guess is that he was giving one of the new Management team the buttons she needs and just left his computer on.  Management and Administrators can remain logged in indefinitely, so if he didn't actually log out and just left his computer running, he would appear as hidden.  Does that make sense?

Caroline

Hi Caro. that could explain it but honestly who really cares why someone is hidding. Sarah posted under hidden and then admitted she did not know why she shows up that way but she does. I checked Micah's account and the administrative one and it clearly showed when they were last on line and it was not in the past few weeks. Same for Keeper she showed the 4th of April. So unless they have alias accounts they are using, ;) . Really who cares how many accounts they post under, except that the poster is trying to inspire conversation. I guess when things get really slow they may opt to do this, Just makes one feel rather silly trying to help someone that is not really in need of help. Why waste your time?
So your explanation makes No sense even if they left their accounts on or open, it would show in their profiles that they were online.
Deb

Offline Kapani

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2007, 11:03 AM »
Melissa go back and read your NASTY post to mike you attacked him big time...
Michelle A.

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Offline Deb

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2007, 11:04 AM »
First I would like to say that everyone of us have the power to stop strife. It takes two to tango. What I mean is each one of us, individually, can control the amount of strife/conflict that occurs here. If someone says something that is challenging/argumentative/resentful, in other words if someone posts something that is going to cause strife, Ignore it, Shake your head, take a deep breath and move on, post something positive.

Second, the great knowledgable people you are referring to are not leaving this forum because of the strife/conflict that is here. They are leaving because they are not getting their way. They don't post because they don't like some of the members, or they want certain members to be banned simply because of who they are.

Take a look through the members directory, Look at how many knowledgable breeders registered here and have only spent 3 minutes here, just enough time to find out someone they don't like was a member here. They haven't spent enough time on here to read any of the arguments, just long enough to know who the other members are.

The strife excuse is just that an excuse, they can control the strife by simply ignoring it, but instead they want to get their way and try and control who can be members here.

I'm sorry, but if those great knowledgable people really wanted to help educate newbies then they would simply ignore those that want to argue and keep the topics polite, pleasant, non-confrontational and educational instead of leaving.

This post needs framed, thank you for being not only a voice of reason but one of truth.
Deb

Offline Kapani

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2007, 11:06 AM »
This post needs framed, thank you for being not only a voice of reason but one of truth.

Amen Michelle C.  I'm slapping some Karma on you :)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 11:10 AM by Kapani »
Michelle A.

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Offline ridgebackpack

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2007, 11:09 AM »
First I would like to say that everyone of us have the power to stop strife. It takes two to tango. What I mean is each one of us, individually, can control the amount of strife/conflict that occurs here. If someone says something that is challenging/argumentative/resentful, in other words if someone posts something that is going to cause strife, Ignore it, Shake your head, take a deep breath and move on, post something positive.

Second, the great knowledgable people you are referring to are not leaving this forum because of the strife/conflict that is here. They are leaving because they are not getting their way. They don't post because they don't like some of the members, or they want certain members to be banned simply because of who they are.

Take a look through the members directory, Look at how many knowledgable breeders registered here and have only spent 3 minutes here, just enough time to find out someone they don't like was a member here. They haven't spent enough time on here to read any of the arguments, just long enough to know who the other members are.

The strife excuse is just that an excuse, they can control the strife by simply ignoring it, but instead they want to get their way and try and control who can be members here.

I'm sorry, but if those great knowledgable people really wanted to help educate newbies then they would simply ignore those that want to argue and keep the topics polite, pleasant, non-confrontational and educational instead of leaving.

Very good post, and very, very true.
Jeannie Armstrong
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Offline melissap

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2007, 11:11 AM »
Melissa go back and read your NASTY post to mike you attacked him big time...

I have answered your questions about my cross posts to "Mike" both privately and publically. I said it once and I will say it again, I did not care for the tone of sexism in his post to me. I think you have probably talked more about this than Mike or I have, and this is the LAST time I am addressing it. Feel free to issue any attacks on my character that you wish, but I think it was advised that if you want to continue to take issue with this, then you can email me privately & so can Mike if he is so inclined.

Melissa
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Offline Deb

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2007, 11:11 AM »
If rosebud ever choose to be in control or have a list I would support it one hundred percent. You go girl.
Deb

Offline Kapani

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2007, 11:16 AM »
I have answered your questions about my cross posts to "Mike" both privately and publically. I said it once and I will say it again, I did not care for the tone of sexism in his post to me. I think you have probably talked more about this than Mike or I have, and this is the LAST time I am addressing it. Feel free to issue any attacks on my character that you wish, but I think it was advised that if you want to continue to take issue with this, then you can email me privately & so can Mike if he is so inclined.

Melissa

you are right Melissa you were able to get away with it.  I guess I was tired of being publically spanked when I was trying to defend myself on false claims when people were trying to tell me what I meant in my own post...I apolgize...
Michelle A.

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Offline melissap

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2007, 11:25 AM »
Thanks for the apology. I  did not get away with anything, and I have again already been "spanked" for my post to Mike, which if you knew me & my humor, you would most likely have laughed, and I did deserve a little slap - but it is so far over that it is not worth dredging up.
mp
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Offline caro

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2007, 02:31 PM »
Come on people, this all started with a question about the "hidden" accounts and not about people not wanting to give their background or personal history which is each person's right.  How on earth did we get on to the subject of Melissa and Mike's interchange?  It has nothing to do with this particular problem: who is it that appears as hidden and why.  The Melissa and Mike interchange is history.  Let us move on.  I threw out a possible explanation.  I don't know how these things work, but it seemed a reasonable explanation, but as several have said, who cares at this point? 

There are many lurkers on this forum.  I have heard lots of  people say that they have lurked but not posted.  I imagine it was because they didn't have the time to get embroiled in an argument or lengthy discussion.  I know some have a problem with the Terms of Service and the fact that posts may be edited by Administration but the poster is still responsible for the content.  I too am worried by this and am trying to argue for a change, but these things take time.

Caroline

Offline Kapani

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2007, 02:46 PM »
Come on people, this all started with a question about the "hidden" accounts and not about people not wanting to give their background or personal history which is each person's right.  How on earth did we get on to the subject of Melissa and Mike's interchange?  It has nothing to do with this particular problem: who is it that appears as hidden and why.  The Melissa and Mike interchange is history.  Let us move on.  I threw out a possible explanation.  I don't know how these things work, but it seemed a reasonable explanation, but as several have said, who cares at this point? 

There are many lurkers on this forum.  I have heard lots of  people say that they have lurked but not posted.  I imagine it was because they didn't have the time to get embroiled in an argument or lengthy discussion.  I know some have a problem with the Terms of Service and the fact that posts may be edited by Administration but the poster is still responsible for the content.  I too am worried by this and am trying to argue for a change, but these things take time.

Caroline

Caroline did you not see my apology to melissa and her acceptance??? Why did this get brought up again after we both put it to bed?
Michelle A.

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Offline Deb

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2007, 03:11 PM »
I threw out a possible explanation.  I don't know how these things work, but it seemed a reasonable explanation, but as several have said, who cares at this point? 

There are many lurkers on this forum.  I have heard lots of  people say that they have lurked but not posted.  I imagine it was because they didn't have the time to get embroiled in an argument or lengthy discussion.  I know some have a problem with the Terms of Service and the fact that posts may be edited by Administration but the poster is still responsible for the content.  I too am worried by this and am trying to argue for a change, but these things take time.

Caroline

I have read on this list many times where management has posted about those bad people with multilple accounts or those banned for doing so.  Maybe because of this when the members see someone posting under hidden and their profile shows they have been on this list since conception but only now posting under hidden status, makes no sense, especially when Keeper stated in this thread no one can do so except those in administration period.
Deb

Offline Theresa M. Lyons

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2007, 03:46 PM »
I consider myself someone who not only has a lot of knowledge to offer, but also enjoys giving it.  But, I have my limits on where I choose to give.  With three children (all play sports), a husband, a job and a magazine, my time is very valuable.  So I certainly do not want to waste it.

To find the time to read through posts and hold long term conversations can be another job within itself.  I am on so many lists, that I have to try and figure out where I can (or want) to contribute.

That place used to be RR-folk, but then it got hostile.  It was riddled with know-it-alls and those whom had nothing better to do in their lives then cause trouble or fight with everyone. It has gotten better, but does not offer the wonderful things found here. I am still on that list, but not very active.  

Then, there is the RRCUS members list, which I am very active on.  To me, the club is very important and takes priority over all other lists.  It has only been over the past six months that the members list has become very active and vocal.  And while there are some heated and sometimes nasty exchanges, I can see past that for the greater good...which to me, is the breed club.  For this reason, I will contribute more there than anywhere else.

This forumn was started to allow those of us who wanted to contribute, educate and talk without worries of flame wars, pissing contests or hostile encounters.  But, like anything in life, when something grows, changes take place.  That is what has happened and is happening here.  I am not sure if that is good or bad.  Only time will tell.

There are several reasons why I have chosen to go into lurking status here over the past few months.  I was seriously considering dropping this list because it started becoming like all the others.  Too much negativity for me...I like to surround myself with positive forces.  And it has nothing to do with me not getting my way or not liking someone.  Just me not wishing to expend energy on a list that I was loosing faith in.

Another reason was because of the TOS allowing the administrators to edit my post, yet making me responsible for what I say.  This, to me, is completely and 100% unacceptable.  If I offend someone, ask me to edit my own post or remove it.  But to automatically assume it is o.k. to edit my writing without myapproval, is a deal breaker for me.  And I really do not understand why it is not changed back to the way it was.  Or...do not make me responsible for what has been edited.  Easy solution if you ask me. I am hoping this will change soon.

And another reason is that l personally do NOT like corresponding with people who choose not to give their name.  I just don't get it.  We are all adults, many in different parts of the world.  What is the big damn deal to give your name and even how long you have been in the breed?  If this list is to be used for educational purposes, don't you want to know who is educating you?  Don't you want to know that the person who is telling you right or wrong, should have atleast some experience in the breed?  Especially when you start talking about genetics and conformation.  Do you really want to take breeding and show advise from a pet owner of less than one year?  Or from someone whose real agenda is getting rid of all breeders.  In either instance, we have no way of knowing this because they join under an alias or pretend to be some newbie just trying to get advice.  

As far as hidden account of administrators, I don't think it really bothers me.  But, I don't think that one should have several alias.  We should only be allowed one.

So for me, its not just about one thing, but many.  And most certainly its about my time and where I think it is best served.

Theresa : )

Offline Rosebud

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2007, 05:47 PM »
Quote
And another reason is that l personally do NOT like corresponding with people who choose not to give their name.  I just don't get it.  We are all adults, many in different parts of the world.  What is the big damn deal to give your name and even how long you have been in the breed?  If this list is to be used for educational purposes, don't you want to know who is educating you?  Don't you want to know that the person who is telling you right or wrong, should have at least some experience in the breed?  Especially when you start talking about genetics and conformation.  Do you really want to take breeding and show advise from a pet owner of less than one year?  Or from someone whose real agenda is getting rid of all breeders.  In either instance, we have no way of knowing this because they join under an alias or pretend to be some newbie just trying to get advice. 


You are one of the few breeders who have a wealth of knowledge to share that doesn't mind sharing it and I commend you for that.

However, we are NOT all adults here, there are some children on this list, probably more than we are aware of. There are many members who have never posted a thing, they just read. Why they choose to only lurk is something we can only speculate at. I would think one of the reasons is fear of being publicly chastised for not having years and years of experience. Yet, as I said you are one of the few with that experience that is willing to share it. It would be nice if other's with your experience would also share yet that experience seems to be reserved for members and potential members only.

I don't see what the big deal is in having alias on a public forum, you can always privately communicate with someone if you want to know who they are, if they still refuse to reveal that information then you can choose to not respond to their posts. Most members here, including yourself, know my name, I have posted in several places my experience in RR's and don't have a problem elaborating in pm's with anyone who asks.

However, I still don't understand why those with more experience are not willing to help all these new owners that have come here to learn and share, if experienced breeders are not willing to teach these new owners properly then who else is going to teach them?

Who cares if the person who wants to learn is hiding their identity, the important thing is that they want to learn and they are seeking out information. Maybe it's for ulterior reasons, again what does that matter, at least one other person, who's identity will also be unknown, will read it and learn something from it. This happens all the time on rr-folk and every other group that is out there.

As for wanting to know who I am learning from, there is something to learn from everyone, including children. Plus, if more experienced members would offer that experience then it will be obvious who the new owners should be listening to.
Michelle C

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Offline Deb

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2007, 06:18 PM »
I wanted to add in reply to what Rosebud just posted. No one person is the teacher of all. It takes many to show the various sides to each and every topic. Take for instance a half dozen different kennels of any breed and the dogs will all vary in some way or another often in many ways. And yet they all fall within that given standard. So who is correct? They all could be. If people are looking for brand names to seek advice from, I suggest you go try to purchase something from that person and then you may be lucky enough to have them mentor you beyond cashing the check. Otherwise if you are seeking knowledge then places like this are indeed worthy of reading and contributing to. No question is a stupid question, it will inspire dialogue and various viewpoints. You can and will learn something if you are open to the knowledge and not seeking to be a groupie of a brand name kennel. With the politics and personalities we see on a small list like this, it is no wonder so few post, and others chooe to stick with a first name. Honestly what more do you people need that continue to harp about identities?
My question to all of you is this, would you rather have disclousure and no participation or information contributed, or a screen name or first name and someone that response and offers help when they can?  Then see how educational this or any list will be and for how long.

Deb

Offline Kapani

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2007, 06:31 PM »
Michelle C and Deb you both make good points I suppose if we aren't giving out medical advice I don't have a problem with going with first names.  I hope everyone would do their homework any way and not just listen to advice on any list..just my .02
Michelle A.

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Offline Keeper

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2007, 07:15 PM »
regarding editing and deleting of posts:

Please note that the recent deleted posts in this topic were not deleted by management.

The original poster deleted their own posts - for whatever reason.

Also note, that I have returned 2 posts since January (and the change in the TOS) - to the original poster.  They had the option to edit their own post or delete it.  Both of the messages were revised and sent back to the forum.

I do NOT edit posts.

Sandra
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Offline Kapani

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2007, 07:23 PM »
That is correct I deleted them when I saw that we had been given that option by management. Since they were of a negative nature and I shouldn't have taken the bait when Melissa was talking about people leaving the list because of "certain" people.  After apolgizing to her I decided to delete them but if we were given the ability to delete our post accidentally by management then I'm sorry by all means put them back...
 :-[
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 07:47 PM by Kapani »
Michelle A.

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Offline Kapani

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2007, 07:40 PM »
And another reason is that l personally do NOT like corresponding with people who choose not to give their name.  I just don't get it.  We are all adults, many in different parts of the world.  What is the big damn deal to give your name and even how long you have been in the breed?  If this list is to be used for educational purposes, don't you want to know who is educating you?  Don't you want to know that the person who is telling you right or wrong, should have atleast some experience in the breed?  Especially when you start talking about genetics and conformation.  Do you really want to take breeding and show advise from a pet owner of less than one year?  Or from someone whose real agenda is getting rid of all breeders.  In either instance, we have no way of knowing this because they join under an alias or pretend to be some newbie just trying to get advice.  

Theresa : )


Theresa I appreciate you are in the dog fancy not only for pleasure but for business.Your name is already out there but for those of us that are not in it for business I just as soon stay to the first name basis.  People have already admitted collecting data on breeders and building a data base to see if there is truth in advertising.  Anyone can join this list why would I want people knowing enough about me that they could track me down and possibly harm me or my animals?  There are a lot of crazy's in the world.. As for taking advice from mere pet owners about breeding I doubt that would happen since were not breeding and those questions should be directed back to their own breeder.
Michelle A.

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Offline Theresa M. Lyons

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2007, 08:19 PM »
Let me clarify some of my comments as it seems I did not explain myself clearly enough.

In-regards to an alias.  I have no problem with first names and last initial, etc.  But, I also like to know if I am talking with someone in another country, if that person is a pet owner/show person/eventer/breeder and how long they have been involved in the breed.  It helps me understand where someone is coming from.

I do believe that we should always be learning and open minded to others opinions. But, I also believe that someone with limited experience that might have a read a book or two about the breed coming on a list allowing others to think they are experienced and offering up advice, is a very dangerous thing.  I don't care how many books one reads about any given subject, if you can not apply it, you have learned nothing. 

On the other side of the coin, I also do not believe that time in service means that one is automatically knowledgeable.  Again, someone could have breed xxx amount of litters, finished xxx amount of champions and been in the breed xxx amount of years and still lack the basic knowledge to educate another.  This does not mean they won't try and that is where the danger comes in for this scenario.

So what I am trying to say is that by knowing who you are speaking with (name, country, time in the breed, etc) allows someone to have a further grasp on what information they are offering up.  I am sorry if this has offended anyone, it was not my intention.  Just trying to point out why I like like to know such things.

As far as me being in the breed from a business standpoint, please understand that this is not where I started.  I was in the breed for almost six years before I started the magazine.  And while I am known more because of the magazine, I would have no problem being on any list and using my name.  No matter what lists I am on (RR or not), I always use my complete name.  I have always done this, even before I was "well known" in the breed.  It's just who I am.

So maybe I have step back and respect those who choose to view it differently.  I can do that.  I just have a hard time understanding why the need.  If someone could give me a few reasons, maybe I could understand more.

Theresa

Offline Kapani

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2007, 08:24 PM »
<<<I do believe that we should always be learning and open minded to others opinions. But, I also believe that someone with limited experience that might have a read a book or two about the breed coming on a list allowing others to think they are experienced and offering up advice, is a very dangerous thing.  I don't care how many books one reads about any given subject, if you can not apply it, you have learned nothing. >> Theresa Lyons


Don't tell my parents that they spent alott of money on my college education/book reading.   ;D
Michelle A.

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Offline Rosebud

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2007, 09:11 PM »
Theresa,

Thank you for clarifying your view. That I can understand when it comes to knowing who is giving advice.
Michelle C

Nothing makes a day more worth it than coming home to a pack of wagging RR's and their kisses......but watch out for those tails they'll get 'cha every time.

Offline melissap

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2007, 08:14 AM »
It is not any secret that the negativity on this forum is a turn off & the secret alias and hidden identities are a large part of  that.

Michelle A. - Again, you were not addressed by name or my incodent in my post, so I am unsure why you felt defensive.

From my understanding it was the exact reason many left RRfolk (the negativity) and yes, most people know who some others are and I  personally feel more confidence in advice given by those who will stand behind their name.

Picking apart the issue by making issue with security issues or implying that anyone has asked for in appropraite info is a huge over reaction. All anyone is  asking  for is a name to go with the post and a bit of info about involivement with the breed (the is the RR forum so it does  not seem off base to provide info about your background in the breed)

The negativity is  being  drug up for me every time I post & I have not done a damned thing to point fingers at any one. yet again I see Michelle A has brought  somethign I have said or done out of context!

Michelle A, if those posts were not deleted - they would be  left up and yet you chose to delete & then drug my name  up again in referenece that is  out of context!

I sure hope that this does get resolved. I thought it had, and frankly as far as I am conderned it has been. I had hoped that  Michelle your apology was sincere - and that you deleting the post is not a retraction of your apology. ? who knows -

THere are a lot of people newer and very experinced  on the thread and openness is in my opioion  what creates trust adn transparency anything less is not forthcoming.

Melissa
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Offline Kapani

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2007, 09:08 AM »
Melissa stop thinking about it, I wrote what I meant.  This list finally has some action so I have to disagree with you when you say people are leaving or not posting because of it.  At this point we have very few experienced show people or breeders on this list and I hope they will join.  Fact of life is we will have disagreements and even arguments but there is often things to be learned in arguments.  Maybe people aren't posting because there is such a watchful eye on every word posted and they aren't in the mood to have to defend every word they type?  I think first names are enough for me becauase any advice given on these lists should be the starting point for a person to do their own research.  I hope one day some of the loooooooooooooong time breeders will join this list and dispense some of their knowledge but until then I think we are doing just fine.
Michelle A.

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Offline Kapani

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2007, 09:21 AM »
It is not any secret that the negativity on this forum is a turn off & the secret alias and hidden identities are a large part of  that.

Melissa

I'm right there with you Melissa :) People being accused of things they did not do and the many  alias's are puzzeling to me as well.    I am who I say I am but there really isn't a way to prove who people are unless of course people start investigating every person on this list and I hope that isn't going to happen. 
Michelle A.

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Offline caro

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2007, 09:58 AM »
Theresa's posts were very pertinent and I have to agree with her.  It is much easier to correspond with somebody when you know (a) where they live; (b) how much experience they have; and (c) what they do with their dogs.

I have shelves of books on dogs but I have to say I have learned more from my aunt and uncle who have been in dogs (raising, training, showing, breeding, and judging) for over half a century.  My books are excellent references when I can't get help verbally, but there is nothing that can take the place of actual experience. 

What I have found is that every situation is unique and while books can generalize, one has to be able to take the book learning and adapt it to individual situations.  That is why I personally value the advice I get from this and the only other list I belong to.  But usually I know where the advice is coming from and feel a lot more confidence when I know the person giving it has been there themselves.

I do not believe that the number of puppies/litters a person produces is necessarily a good indicator of their knowledge.  Some of the most knowledgeable dog people I have met have bred very very seldom but what they have produced has been high quality.

Caroline

Offline melissap

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2007, 10:58 AM »
Melissa stop thinking about it, I wrote what I meant. 

Melissa writes: I had stopped "thinking" about it" - but was surprised that they had been deleted when I logged back in this morning & I felt it best to clarify why - I  was unaware that we could "delete" posts!

 " Fact of life is we will have disagreements and even arguments but there is often things to be learned in arguments.  Maybe people aren't posting because there is such a watchful eye on every word posted and they aren't in the mood to have to defend every word they type? "


Melissa writes:


I think we agree that this is "negativity" in itself...and that is exactly the problem; as I can not speak for others, I am worn out by having to worry about every little thing I type & then being jumped on.

Nobody new or long time wants to  get into negative confronations and see things they write taken out of context.

I think we were on a better track when we started filling  out the more indepth profiles, and Michelle A. I know you did too -

I also agree that ss# are a bit over board, but general info about your history in the breed should not cause defensiveness.

While a variety of opinions is essential for learning - these opinions could be less hostile - and should not really be the cause of negativity - but getting jumped on is something that will - after the jumping ; of course is when people get defensive and it  adds further  confusion and  anomocity when the Jumper is hiding and waiting  to bait others on the forum.


I hope one day some of the loooooooooooooong time breeders will join this list and dispense some of their knowledge but until then I think we are doing just fine.

Melissa writes: yes we are all doing just fine - but the negativity has already had its impact - & I think our goal is to have more open communication from all sides, as the new persons contrubutions will shape the future of the breed. Like the rest of us - non of our dogs  will live forever, and havign the opportunity to shape the group of new individuals should be a mutually respected gift!


THanks for everyones in put & contributions - and have a great day!

Melissa P


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Offline Keeper

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Re: Hidden accounts
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2007, 05:07 PM »
In message #31 Michelle Kapani writes:  "This list finally has some action so I have to disagree with you when you say people are leaving or not posting because of it."

I am sorry to say that this sort of 'action' is not what this forum originally had in mind at it's inception. :(
I would rather that the 'action' be more toward important topics, not Hidden Accounts. 
I believe the topic is divided and will remain so, since our forum does not require full disclosure of name, rank or serial number.   ;)

If you don't trust information from the person posting, the answer is simple...don't believe it, research elsewhere. 
I've had a couple good suggestions and we might incorporate them in the future.  Those who post information about say, TRAINING could have a brief resume added to the Members topic and also have a 'title' relating to their semi-expertise in that topic put in their Avatar.  Would like private response to your thoughts about doing this.

Still the forum would have to disavow any guarantee that this information is correct.   ??? ???
So you see, I think that some people are taking this forum WAY to SERIOUSLY.

Sandra
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