Author Topic: Necessary Fence?  (Read 638 times)

acft90364

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Necessary Fence?
« on: April 16, 2007, 05:18 PM »
Hi all,

     I guess you could call me a brand new owner, maybe, technically.  I'm actually waiting for my boy Graham to be born.  Can't wait, I hope I'm this excited when my human child is on it's way (don't tell my wife).  My issue is this:  Is a fence absolutely necessary?  I plan on having a fence built this summer. Do many of you owners out there have fences?  Does it make a difference to for dog as far as security, tendencies to wonder etc?
     In my research and on visits with breeders and owners, some had 6' fences and some had only 4' fences.  Now, all the books say you have to have a 6' fence, or your dog is gone.  But, some of the owners I talked to had dogs that stayed in the yard with a 4' fence, or no fence.  What gives?  Any feedback from you veteran owners out there, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Damien

Offline Keeper

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2007, 05:36 PM »
Yes, I believe a fence is necessary for the safety of your dog....AND your small and younger children.

Not only is a solid fence good to keep dogs and children IN  But, it keeps other dogs, animals and even children OUT.

Additionally, while I am not against an electric fence, this type of fence doesn't keep dangers out of your yard...and unless you are planning on fitting your children with electric sensors the fence will not keep your children inside the fence line.  (said tongue in cheek)

Part of being a responsible pet owner is restraining them and training them.

Most RR breeders will not sell to someone who is not planning to keep the dogs inside of safe fencing.  If your breeder is one, and has put that into her contract - you could be in breech of the contract.

Sandra
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Offline Kapani

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2007, 06:30 PM »
For my breeders it is not mandatory that you have a fence but you must understand you are stuck with a leash ALL THE TIME if you don't have a fence.  My backyard is fenced in and it's really only good to let them out to potty because where ever I am is where they want to be so they're not much for being outside by themselves.  A 4 foot fence would in NO WAY keep either of my boys in the backyard therefore my fence is a 6 foot privacy fence.  I've had other breeds but nothing compares to the prey drive of a hound so these dogs are NOT dogs that should be able to wander around without a leash unless they are in a fenced in area.  Please think long and hard to make sure this is the breed for you..
Michelle A.

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Offline Rosebud

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2007, 06:50 PM »
Most RR breeders will same the same thing about fences, You need to have one with an RR. I agree with it even though I do not have fenced property.

As for the height of the fence, well, that depends on your RR.

I've heard stories of RR's jumping 6 ft. fences and I've heard stories of RR's that wouldn't step over a towel. Mine are in the latter category, when inside! Outside is a whole different ball-game. Mine can be left out in the dog run, which is a 4 ft. fence, with no fears of them jumping or digging out. They know they are not allowed to. Yet from a sitting position, my girl Sally, jumped through the open back window of my Explorer because she was determined that she was going to go for a ride.

So to answer the question about whether a fence is really necessary, I will just say this, be prepared to chase your dog down, it will happen and RR's are deaf when in prey-drive mode. Also pray that it doesn't run out in front of a car. Mine run on 5 acres and I still have to stay on my toes watching to make sure they don't take off after something.
Michelle C

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Offline ShellyK

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2007, 07:17 PM »
Hi Damien,

My fence ranges from about five feet to about four feet.  Kodi has never attempted to jump the fence.  There are two things that I think caused this:

1. Kodi's just not a jumper.  He does the standard ridgeback bounce as much as anyone...but as far as jumping up and over structures, that's not so much his thing. 
2. He never learned that jumping a fence meant getting out and exploring.  When he was younger (8 weeks to year and a half) he was crated when I wasn't around.  Now that he's just over two and has never attempted a jump, I have a dog door that goes into the backyard.  Even when the squirrels play on top the fence, he just bounces around it, never tries to jump.

My biggest recommendation is: don't give him the opportunity and reward of jumping a fence and escaping to roam.  So if your fence isn't 6 feet, don't leave the dog alone out there.  If you're just building the fence...go for the 6 feet.  Better safe than sorry.

My two cents...
Shelly K.

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2007, 09:04 PM »
I think a fence is best.  Many RRs have a high prey drive and will be gone.  I have heard of dogs blowing threw the invisable fence after years of good behavior.  All it takes is the right temptation. 

I have only a 4 foot fence around my yard, and neither of my dogs has ever tried to leave.  Of course they also get plenty of excersize.  We go biking several days a week.  I also never leave them out unattended for long.  Safty first is my moto.
Angie

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2007, 10:14 PM »
I have an electric fence and it works well for keeping my older boy in the yard. I do not leave him out long and I always have my eye on him. The younger one hasn't been trained to it yet but I have to say I hope I never have to. My fervent wish is to fence our yard with a real fence in the very near future, and it would be a 6-footer.

My opinion of whether a dog will blow through an electric fence is that it depends on the dog. My older boy (3), I don't believe, ever would. He's been sorely tempted but apparently hasn't wanted to risk possible pain. My puppy on the other hand has a much stronger prey drive, and I don't believe that an electric fence would hold him, and I won't put him in a position to test it - it's too dangerous.

Besides, as others have said, you can't keep people and other dogs out with an electric fence.

So my advice would be a real fence and a six-footer at that.

Good luck with your new puppy and please ask as many questions as you want - there's lots of good advice to be found from the folks on this forum.

Julie

Offline oscarsmom

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2007, 11:32 PM »
I agree, put up a good fence. We don't have a yard to fence (apartment dwellers) so Oscar is never in a situation where he has to stick to one patch of earth - but I have to say, his prey drive has absolutely stunned me and if I DID have a yard, I'd sure as anything have some sort of fence around it, or I'd never let him out there alone.

I believe what others have said about the height maybe not being as critical as there being some sort of barrier, period. But, being better safe than sorry with a taller fence can't hurt. I do personally know dogs who repeatedly run through their electric fences (if I have it right, once they go through, they only recieve a series of consecutive zaps, then it stops altogether - it doesn't keep zapping them until they come back - so why would they come back?!).

I know my dog can also be quite protective of his space - if your boy grows up having a desire to keep strangers off HIS yard, it might be prudent to avoid a hidden electric fence, through which other animals, people and children could enter and end up getting frightened by a rather large barking dog coming towards them (not to suggest that an RR would ever attack a person purely for stepping into his yard, but even a warning by these dogs can look and sound quite scary to some).

Just my thoughts...

~Natalya

Offline lmarcotty

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2007, 10:11 AM »
Like the folks above have said, the fence height you need will depend on your dog's personality and early experiences - some dogs just never learn that they can jump a fence, whether 3 foot or 6 foot or whatever.  Some dogs take to it so naturally and easily that it's a thing of beauty to watch them go over, but a DISASTER and catastrophe in the making.  Strength of prey drive, of course, is a big factor in motivation, as is wanderlust, both of which can be decreased or eased by lots of exercise and interesting activity (agility, lure coursing, dog park visits, etc.).

If I were you, I would either do the six foot fence, or a shorter fence combined with an electric wire.  Electricity, although a really scary lesson for the dogs the first 2 times they encounter it (it took all my dogs exactly 2 contacts with the wire and then they NEVER came close to it again), is very effective, but without a visible barrier to associate it with, I think it's much more likely that a high prey drive and/or high pain threshold dog will just blow through it without thinking - and get hit by a car or be afraid to come back *in* again.

Most important, though, like the posters above said - never put your puppy in a position that he learns he CAN jump the fence.  It's the same with so many behaviors we'd like to control - for example, never let your puppy learn he doesn't have to come when you call him.  I, of course, speak from experience - i.e., do as I say, not as I do! ;o)

Best of luck to you,
L-A
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Offline Kapani

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2007, 10:21 AM »
Most important, though, like the posters above said - never put your puppy in a position that he learns he CAN jump the fence.  It's the same with so many behaviors we'd like to control - for example, never let your puppy learn he doesn't have to come when you call him.  I, of course, speak from experience - i.e., do as I say, not as I do! ;o)

Best of luck to you,
L-A

I'm sure there is that rare ridgeback that will come everytime but when they are in hot pursuit of a cat, bunny or any other animal they most likely won't come.  I could call my rotti off chasing something but my RR's don't even hear me.  Better be safe then sorry and go with the 6 foot fence. 
Michelle A.

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Offline caro

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2007, 10:25 AM »
A fence is absolutely necessary.  These dogs are oblivious to everything when they see a squirrel or deer the other side of a road and after my first bitch got out the front door of my house one evening when we got home from work and was so excited by what she saw the other side of the street she actually ran into a passing car, which thankfully was going very slowly, a fence became very obvious for everybody's safety.  No, she wasn't hurt except for a few scratches, but it was a very scary moment!

I don't like the invisible fences.  I know of a dog who got through the invisible fence during deer hunting season and was gone in the mountains for days.  His owners found him sitting outside the invisible fence because while in the heat of the moment he got out through it, he didn't want to get zapped coming back home.  Also, as has been said, it may keep your dogs in, but it doesn't keep other dogs and critters out.

A six foot fence is probably the safest.  We have post and rail fencing with high tensile wire between the rails.  This wire is electrified most of the time.  The total height of the fence is probably about 5 ft. and my young male can actually get over it when the electricity is off.  He bounces on the top rail and when he bounces high enough he can get his hind legs up and then he is off to the races.  Luckily he doesn't want to go too far, but I would just as soon he didn't jump into the UPS truck which I found him doing one day!!  If you didn't want to go with the six foot fence, you could go with a lower one and run a hot wire just inside the top, so the dog cannot get his feet up on the top of the fence.  I have also caught one of our girls actually climbing a chain link fence; she figured out she could get her feet in the squares and once one foot was on the top, off she went.

Another thing you should think about if you live in the city is that your gate into your garden should have a lock on it.  Firstly it will prevent anybody stealing your dog, and secondly it will stop a child wandering into your yard and leaving the gate open.  These dogs tend to be somewhat territorial and I know from experience, that mine do not like strangers coming into their territory unless I am there to tell them it is OK, so a strange child wandering into your yard might get an unwelcome surprise.

Definitely get a fence.

Caroline

Offline Rosebud

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2007, 10:41 AM »
This is a link to the 1996 RRCUS Health Update. Opps, this is the 2001 update of the 1996 survey.

http://rrcus.org/assets/html/about/health_genetics/96health_update.htm

In Table II the number 3 cause of death of ALL ridgebacks that were included in the survey was

Hit by Car (1.2% of the survey population)

In Table III the number 1 cause of death for Ridgebacks over 6 months of age was

Hit by Car (1.5% of the Adult survey population)


These were the statistics in 1996 and pretty much only included the RRCUS community and RRCUS affiliates. This survey also more than likely did not include statistics of NON-RRCUS affiliated RR owners. So in actuality the percentage of RR's whose cause of death is Hit by Car are higher.

Damien these statistics are also something to consider since most, if not all of the participants were individual owners and breeders who were knowledgable of the prey drive in RR's and the need to have boundaries secured with barriers (fences).
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 11:57 AM by Rosebud »
Michelle C

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Offline Kyalami2001

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2007, 06:47 PM »
I believe a fence is an absolute must for any property. If you live in the suburbs, it is not only a safety issue as far as the dog wandering onto the road & being hit by a passing car is concerned, it is also not responsible dog ownership for neighbours to have to worry about their children & animals to be accosted in the street by a large brown (& we know to be friendly, but they don't) unsupervised  dog. It never ceases to amaze me that people will pay large amounts of money for their companion but hesitate to spend that bit extra to keep him/her safe.  For your own peace of mind, get a fence 6ft high.
Lyn
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Offline Lekana

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2007, 08:59 PM »
Just to play devil's advocate.  I will first say that a fenced yard is a huge plus, not to mention very convenient for the dog owner.

However, I have placed pups with people who have lived in an apartment environment or otherwise didn't have a fence.  These people have turned out to be excellent owners, not to mention have dogs with very balanced lives because they WALK with their dogs as a regiment of their lives.

It all has to do with the interview process and references that a breeder should check out.  If people are committed to leashing their dog, taking long walks with their dog, allowing cirumstances of ocassional free runs in safe environments....these people, at least in my experience, turn out even better than those that have a fenced yard, but their dog never goes anywhere else. 

As to the height of fences, as others have said....some ridgebacks do quite well with a 4 foot fence, and others are determined to scale a 6 foot fence.  Personally, I believe a lot of these tendencies have to do with boundries and limitations in ALL things set early in puppyhood.  I've never had more than a 4 foot fence, and even though my ridgebacks "sproink" in the air well above the height of my fence in their excitement over whatever game catches their eye, none of them has ever actually gone over the fence. 

I've had CDX titled dogs that KNOW how to jump over things, but never jumped over their yard fence.

I guess all I am saying is there are caveats to every situation.  Some breeders never sell pups to couples with very young children, yet I did that once, BASED on meeting that couple, and seeing the gentle yet firm control they have over their toddler.  Not to mention the toddler herself delighted in 7 puppies crawling all over her and not once minding the nips and scratches 7 puppies can inflict. 

If the parents had to repeat warnings to the child (having no control) or the child herself feared the pups, they wouldn't get a pup from me.  But that particular visit was magical, and their now 2 year old "pup" is a valued member of their family...being used as a pillow to that now older child.

It is just a feeling, and common sense throughout the entire process of screening potential buyers.  So whether no fence, or young children, these people shouldn't be summarily dismissed.

JMO,
Shara

Offline oscarsmom

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2007, 09:52 PM »
However, I have placed pups with people who have lived in an apartment environment or otherwise didn't have a fence.  These people have turned out to be excellent owners, not to mention have dogs with very balanced lives because they WALK with their dogs as a regiment of their lives... If people are committed to leashing their dog, taking long walks with their dog, allowing cirumstances of ocassional free runs in safe environments....these people, at least in my experience, turn out even better than those that have a fenced yard, but their dog never goes anywhere else.

Just wanted to give Shara a big thank you for saying the above!! ;D I'M one of those apartment people who squeezed through the fence clause in Oscar's contract - because I don't have a yard TO fence. Having no choice but to spend multiple, constructive hours walking together each day has made our relationship much stronger, and given us time to regularly work on obedience and socialization. Oscar gets his fare share of running wild in the local wooded park, but the fact that he can't so much as leave our doorstep without me by his side has forged a real bond.

Cheers,
~Natalya

Offline ShellyK

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2007, 10:20 PM »
Off topic...but BRAVO to Shara and Natalya. ;D  When I got my spaniel, I lived in a condo.  We walked and walked and walked.  My little spaniel got 10 times the exercise as many dogs w/ yards that I knew.  And now that I do live in a house and have a yard...I'm still in the habit of walking my boys.  Every morning and night, we make the rounds.

So, I agree whole-heartedly...if you have a house, a fence is a great idea (and the bigger the fence the better.)  However, not having a house/yard doesn't automatically mean that home isn't a good one.

Shelly K.

Offline Julie

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2007, 10:46 PM »
To clarify, I don't think that just because you don't have a yard you're not a good option for a puppy home. I was responding to the question of the new puppy owner who asked about building a fence. IMO, he should. :) There are lots of great homes out there that don't necessarily have a fenced yard. As far as I'm concerned, my yard won't really be fenced until it's got a physical fence around it.

Julie

Offline oscarsmom

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2007, 11:07 PM »
Sorry I went off topic! Julie, no worries, I think we all knew what you were trying to say - I just had to throw in my thanks because, well, I'm darned proud of my urban hound's life!!  ;D

~Natalya

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2007, 11:24 PM »
there are exceptions to every rule. 
Just as there are excellent owners who don't have a fence - but use a leash when the dog(s) are outside - there are also dogs whose backyard is safely fenced, yet 'escape' when the front door is opened. 
The point made about trying to call off a RR who is in high gear prey drive is true even of a well-trained obedience dog.  Watch a coursing dog on the side lines and you will see that prey-drive trying to be controlled.   ;)
Let's face it, there are dogs who can easily clear a 5 ft fence and they aren't agility trained dogs.  I have seen one  RR scale a 6 foot kennel fence...and he didn't jump...he climbed it!   :o

To date only one of my RRs has shown a desire to go over a fence.  She was one of my puppies who came back for boarding.  She lived on 75 acres near Traverse City and pretty much had the run of 5 fully fenced acres.  She had learned to 'jump' the fence when the owners got a covered hot tub...and placed it next to the fenced area in the corner of the yard.  She would pop up on the cover of the hot tub and bask in the heat...and then one day she put her front paws on the fence and over she went.  When she came for boarding the owner mentioned that as he got in his car.   :o   We put a solid tarp over the top and lobster claw clipped it snugly over lapping the kennel run.  She tried several times to go over it.  That made my decision to  put her on a 16 foot flexi for yard potty time.  Whenever she comes for boarding...we add the kennel fence topper. 

To begin our training we do not allow any of our puppies to stand on hind legs and put their front paws on us, the counter, fences, gates, etc.  When a dog does this they are gauging the height of an obstacle.  We discourage neighbors and friends from allowing or encouraging the dogs to come up so they can pet them over the fence.  I think the idea of adding a hot wire to a short fence might be a deterant for dogs who are already exhibiting the desire to jump.

Even where we live, the law requires dogs to be fenced or on leash.  The only exception is bird hunting or rabbit hunting seasons. 

Sandra

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Offline caro

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2007, 03:01 AM »
I have always stressed to puppy buyers that there should be some sort of barrier between the front door (or whatever door is used most to go into and out of the house) and the road.  An exuberant puppy can escape through someobdy's legs all too easily and if there is nothing to stop them, out into the street.  Have seen it happen all too often where this has occurred and the dog has been hit by a passing car.  I have no problem selling to somebody in an apartment provided they are an active person and enjoy taking a lot of exercise.  And I agree by having to go out with your dog frequently does increase the bond between you.  I have sold to people in town houses where the front yard is the street, but in those cases I have recommended that a gate be placed in front of the front door so that when the  door is opened, there is no possibility of the puppy escaping between somebody's legs.  It takes time to train a puppy to be a reliably trained dog and it is that period before they are reliable that is dangerous.

Caroline

Offline Tracey

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2007, 05:17 PM »
One of the first things I told my pup's breeder was that I have an enclosed garden. To me, it's as important as having a place to walk regularly, and a piece of lawn. I have a wrought iron fence at the front (6ft) so that Mushi (and before her, Chunqa) can see out into the road, beyond her territory. The sides and back of the property is solidly walled - not quite 6ft, though (perhaps 4). Mushi, like all RRs, is very athletic but hasn't been over the back wall yet and I don't think she will unless she's left in the backyard for a while.
Tracey
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acft90364

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2007, 10:05 PM »
Hey thanks for all the input.  I really enjoyed reading all your advice and tips, and thank you for not cutting me up for the fence question.  Although, I think Julie may have gotten the wrong idea.  I was by no means planning to have my boy off-leash, or have him out of my control.  I've done a lot of research, and talked to many breeders to not know better.  My fence question was merely something to pick the brains of more knowledgeable folks.
     That being said...  Big thanks to Shara for your post.  And, again thanks to everybody else.  I will definitely take all the advice to heart.

Damien

PaulaEdwina

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2007, 01:55 PM »
I had a 4ft fence when I lived in town and that was good enough. Then I moved to the woods. WIth their prey drive,  I went with the Benner's heavy duty deer fence that finishes to 6ft. That worked great with the boys,and then I got a 'return to rescue' foster that I ended up keeping. She found ever space/gap to get under that fence to go walkabout in the woods. I then strung a hotwire (visible - the type you use to keep in livestock) on the inside of my fence and nobody challenges it (knockwood). I've seen them chase a squirrel right to the perimiter and make a hard turn.

Just my experience.
Paula

Offline hewathe

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Re: Necessary Fence?
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2007, 10:08 AM »
The back of my property is not fenced, and it just means I'm out there with him on a leash.  I would never trust him off leash - as much as he is a dog that sticks to my side, I know that it's not worth the risk.  The leash goes on before I so much as touch the door knob.

It's a hassle, but he definitely gets some extra exercise! We are planning on finishing the fence though, and it'll be 6 ft wooden fence.  I could go lower than that if I wanted though, Jenga doesn't show much interest in crossing barriers.  I could leave his crate door unlocked and he wouldn't figure out how to get out.