Author Topic: "Blue" RR? (Read 1219 times)

Eminem · « **on:** April 23, 2008, 05:03 PM »

Last night I was walking Bogie through the North End in Boston and a man called out to us "Is that a Rhodesian?" He had what at first glance looked like a weimeraner (sp?) pup with him. We went up to him and he introduced us to his 3 month old female Rhodesian. Sure enough she had a ridge and looked quite a bit like every other RR pup I've seen except she was BLUE! She had a little bit of red mixed in but was almost solid blue. The fellow who owned her said that she would change colors as she aged but I've never heard of that much of a color change. Maybe a little deeper red or little lighter, but not a complete color change. I've seen a few RR's that seemed to have some black in their coat but this was totally different she was nearly solid light gray with blue eyes. She was a stunner but I didn't know that could even happen? Has anyone heard of such a thing? I wish, I wish I had my camera.

Melanie

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #1 on:** April 23, 2008, 05:15 PM »

Melanie, there is a blue gene in ridgebacks, and the pups who inherit the gene look bluish in comparison next to other ridgebacks. Here is an example of a blue ridgeback on this page:
http://kalaharirr.tripod.com/oddcolors.html
However, what you're describing sounds more like a mix. Last summer there was a litter of purposely bred RR and Weim mixes - I believe it was either in Louisiana or Alabama - and I did save some photos posted on the Net as advertisement. The person was advertising pups as purebred (since both parents were AKC registered, even if of different breeds) and asked for a rather nice sum of money. Maybe you met one of the pups from such breeder.

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #2 on:** April 23, 2008, 05:23 PM »

Also, lately in Europe people rather routinely tested their Ridgebacks for dilute blue gene in attempts of identifying the carriers. Maybe someone from Europe can elaborate more on the subject.

Eminem · « **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2008, 05:42 PM »

Thanks for the info. I had no idea that purebred RR's could end up with such differing coats.

The man who had the pup said this was their 3rd RR and he'd gotten them all from the same breeder in Maine? He couldn't remember the woman's name. He was the kinda guy who looked embarrassed that he could remember and said sheepishly "my wife would know". I looked on the RRCUS site but I don't see a breeder listed from Maine. We've met another RR in our neighborhood that's from Maine so I'm wondering if it's the same breeder. It's possible she was a mix but I'd be surprised. She also looked to me to have had a dermoid sinus taken our as she had a little scar on the back of her neck.

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2008, 07:48 PM »

Melanie, that is very interesting! Please share if you ever get to meet that RR again and talk more about the blue gene with the owner. If that pup is from a purebred litter, then that little girl could be the only blue one in the litter, or maybe there are couple, but definately not the entire litter. I bet she's gorgeous. I would absolutely love to the a photo of your baby next to baby blue!!!

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2008, 09:44 PM »

Hey, how about this chocolate RR? He goes to the shows and is very popular. Of course, no conformation classes for him, but how interesting!!!
I know you do not speak the language, but keep scrolling down and check out the choco ridgie:
http://sosnovay.3bb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=158&p=4

AliCap · « **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2008, 10:19 PM »

Wow! That is really amazing, Asta. I have never even heard of this color. The picture where you can see his ridge is awesome, the ridge is really outlined . . . . .

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2008, 10:25 PM »

Alice, it is a mix of a ridgeless RR female and a Shorthaired German Pointer. But the dog participates in the ring - just not the breed ring (my guess is junior handler?). BUT the oddest and most interesting thing is, most of that litter had great ridges.... Did we not learn that a rr dog cannot produce ridge in the offspring? So technically this litter had no way of getting ridged pups in it, right? Nature is unpredictable at times! Any thoughts?

P.s. this is why I said that maybe that blue pup that Melanie spotted was from a litter similar to this - two purebred parents, but of different breeds, i.e. not really a RR.

AliCap · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2008, 10:30 PM »

Aah, that makes much more sense - I was thinking it was a purebred RR!!

alice

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #9 on:** April 23, 2008, 10:35 PM »

Amongst all of the recessive genes, I do not think we can find a chocolate. But it makes me wonder.... Maybe in the early ridgebacks there were some of this color?

P.s. I am fascinated to find out in what ring the pup performs though - his ring photos threw me off at first also. I know it cannot be a class ring of conformation...

WAARHEID · « **Reply #10 on:** April 23, 2008, 11:02 PM »

Quote from: la_vista_baby on April 23, 2008, 10:35 PM

Amongst all of the recessive genes, I do not think we can find a chocolate. But it makes me wonder.... Maybe in the early ridgebacks there were some of this color?

Yes. There are photographs and drawings of early dogs that are this color, though the seemed to typically have some white in the coat also.

What I found most interesting looking at this dog is that he is, in Ridgeback terms, a chocolate pointed liver nose.

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #11 on:** April 23, 2008, 11:38 PM »

Quote from: WAARHEID on April 23, 2008, 11:02 PM

What I found most interesting looking at this dog is that he is, in Ridgeback terms, a chocolate pointed liver nose.

Yes, there is an ongoing debate on who the dog resembles more in personality and temperament.

The owner says it's a ridgeback at heart. I wonder what about working in the field...

Interesting. Maybe later we'll find out.

k9crazyrr · « **Reply #12 on:** April 23, 2008, 11:49 PM »

There is a RR mix, from rescue, that got an ILP number here in Michigan. He is an interesting looking dog. Dark with a thicker coat and white markings. He loves to course and the owner has done a lot with him. Sweet temperment too. Thanks for sharing the pictures Asta.

Angie G

kotchfam · « **Reply #13 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:30 AM »

The Kalahari link at the top does list that Black wheaten did exist so alot of this isnt all that hard to believe.

I get a kick out fo the black and tan's. They look like ridged uncropped dobies to me.

caro · « **Reply #14 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:36 AM »

I love the black and tans also. Ever since I saw pictures of "Shona" some years back, I thought how beautiful they were and what a shame they were disqualified. Here's Shona's website. Sadly she died in 2006 but she was very beautiful.

Caroline

http://class.csueastbay.edu/commsci/dogs.htm

kotchfam · « **Reply #15 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:54 AM »

The black and tan is in Rachi's line "CH SPRING VALLEY'S RACHMANINOFF" http://www.wendelboe.com//cgi-bin/uncgi.tcl?DOGINDEX=9488&REPORT-TYPE=PED5URL

Lucius and Titus both carry these genes.

http://maijanirrs.com/photos.cfm and here's one of their cousins.

Shona was Rachi's littermate.

Its amazing what different genes can be thrown!

Porga · « **Reply #16 on:** April 24, 2008, 12:34 PM »

Here you can see a black wheaten Ridgeback doing some hog hunting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE0L8_XOYYo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaRpvLvGMSg

Regards!

nced_12 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 24, 2008, 01:24 PM »

Quote from: kotchfam on April 24, 2008, 09:54 AM

http://maijanirrs.com/photos.cfm and here's one of their cousins.

Hey thats Memphis! I've seen him in person, SO cool! Beautiful boy. There were actually two black and tans in his litter. My sig. other wants a black and tan SOOO bad. I didn't know he was your boys cousin, small world! They do have a similar look, now that I think about it. You can see more pictures of Memphis and his litter mates under Past Litters.

nana · « **Reply #18 on:** April 24, 2008, 03:16 PM »

Quote from: Porga on April 24, 2008, 12:34 PM

Here you can see a black wheaten Ridgeback doing some hog hunting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE0L8_XOYYo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaRpvLvGMSg

Disgusting videos..., sorry...

Nana

Annette · « **Reply #19 on:** April 24, 2008, 03:20 PM »

Quote from: nana on April 24, 2008, 03:16 PM

Disgusting videos..., sorry...

Nana

I really wish there had been a warning.

nced_12 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 24, 2008, 03:26 PM »

Quote from: nana on April 24, 2008, 03:16 PM

Disgusting videos..., sorry...

Nana

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you guys brought it up....

HORRID videos. Made me sick to my stomach.

kotchfam · « **Reply #21 on:** April 24, 2008, 03:35 PM »

Quote from: nced_12 on April 24, 2008, 01:24 PM

Hey thats Memphis! I've seen him in person, SO cool! Beautiful boy. There were actually two black and tans in his litter. My sig. other wants a black and tan SOOO bad. I didn't know he was your boys cousin, small world! They do have a similar look, now that I think about it. You can see more pictures of Memphis and his litter mates under Past Litters.

I havent seen him in person but I've talked to Memphis's "Mom" and she's great.

Yup, they're Spring Valley! Lucius probably looks more like them then Titus. Titus favored his moms side a bit more where the head is involved.

(or so I've been told)

nced_12 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 24, 2008, 03:44 PM »

Quote from: kotchfam on April 24, 2008, 03:35 PM

I havent seen him in person but I've talked to Memphis's "Mom" and she's great.

Yup, they're Spring Valley! Lucius probably looks more like them then Titus. Titus favored his moms side a bit more where the head is involved. (or so I've been told)

Deb is great! She, and a few other wonderful Colorado RR people, have taken me under their wing and are teaching me the tricks of the trade. i.e. putting up with my bazillion questions

Yep, I definitely see the Spring Valley look more in Lucius, and thats saying something because I don't know a whole lot about different lines quite yet. Both of your boys are BEAUTIFUL!!

kotchfam · « **Reply #23 on:** April 24, 2008, 03:46 PM »

It comes with time. I cant even say that I can see a dog that looks specifically Spring Valley, but I can kinda tell dogs with east coast influence.

Now if I send a pic to Liz she can figure it out in an heartbeat.

Im just not that good!

caro · « **Reply #24 on:** April 24, 2008, 04:00 PM »

If you showed in the mid-Atlantic region you would very soon recognize the Spring Valley influence. It along with Kimani is very very distinctive.

Caroline

kotchfam · « **Reply #25 on:** April 24, 2008, 04:08 PM »

There is no doubt that my dogs dont look like many of the dogs showing down here.

LLIPPY · « **Reply #26 on:** April 24, 2008, 04:42 PM »

I have really loved this discussion. I have to say, I was shocked as well although knowing genetics - anything is possible. I was recently talking to a dogwalker who said one of her clients is an all black Rhodesian Ridgeback. it took me by suprise!

So I am assuming dogs not of the wheten color are disqualified from showing etc? So they arent really bred they just win a genetic lottery? If someone could enlighten me here a little more about this I'd love that! Thanks.

Lis

kotchfam · « **Reply #27 on:** April 24, 2008, 04:56 PM »

I dont believe the color is a DQ
however
It is not one of the accepted colors so finishing a dog like that would be close to impossible.

caro · « **Reply #28 on:** April 24, 2008, 06:05 PM »

Didn't Spring Valley recently try to show a black RR in New Jersey. I believe Connie Barton was the judge and she disqualified the dog saying she was too old to start crusading for change!! I know brindles are not accepted. Check the KUSA Standard that is reprinted on this Forum as they are very specific about color.

Caroline

kotchfam · « **Reply #29 on:** April 24, 2008, 07:57 PM »

I'm not sure Caroline but I can ask.

Not being accepted (and being excused for it) an being DQ'd are two different things.

Think about it.

These black and tans, brindles or whatever can all lure course as long as they have the ridge.

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #30 on:** April 24, 2008, 08:00 PM »

Quote from: kotchfam on April 24, 2008, 07:57 PM

These black and tans, brindles or whatever can all lure course as long as they have the ridge.

And that's a great thing!!! A brindle color does not say anything about physical health or endurance of an animal, so why eliminate, right??? My blue weim is allowed to participate in all AKC events, except for the conformation due to his disqualifying color. Why should ridgebacks be different?

WAARHEID · « **Reply #31 on:** April 24, 2008, 08:25 PM »

The difference, and it's not insignificant, is that brindle was included in the original standard written by Barnes. It was later removed, many think for political reasons.

The blues, black & tan's, etc. were never considered correct.

Those videos are also problematic on several levels.

Firstly, because this thread is not in the Hunting section of the forum (http://rr-forum.com/forum/index.php?board=39.0), some kind of advisory in the initial post that the videos contain footage of game being harvested in the field would have been beneficial. In that way those who prefer not to see that kind of footage would know to skip it. And those who do choose to view them, know what they are getting into.

Beyond that, the videos themselves raise several issues. Most of them have to do with the errors on display regarding the minutia of hunting ethics (for the people) and correct functional type (for the Ridgebacks). Those are important, but off topic, so I'll address them in the Hunting section of the forum separately.

With regards to the color topic which we are discussing here specifically... somebody lied to that guy. That dog is not purebred, or if it is, he shouldn't admit it. The head is all wrong and the tail is has long tufted fur! That dog may have a ridge, but it is a mongrel.

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #32 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:00 PM »

Quote from: WAARHEID on April 24, 2008, 08:25 PM

Those videos are also problematic on several levels.

Beyond that, the videos themselves raise several issues. Most of them have to do with the errors on display regarding the minutia of hunting ethics (for the people) and correct functional type (for the Ridgebacks). Those are important, but off topic, so I'll address them in the Hunting section of the forum separately.

Waarheid,

I will be very interested in reading your elaborations on this, cause honestly, I am considering trying out my dogs in hunting very soon, but never did I think that this was the way the hunt is performed. I guess these are very amateur and one individual's videos - everyone can post anything on the youtube seems like... Porga was trying to add to the subject of a color and probably did not think that these videos would be very distasteful to the many.

Porga · « **Reply #33 on:** April 25, 2008, 02:50 AM »

Quote from: la_vista_baby on April 24, 2008, 09:00 PM

Porga was trying to add to the subject of a color and probably did not think that these videos would be very distasteful to the many.

Apsolutely.
But, actually, anyone really interested in the breed should already bump on that videos.

NombekoRRs · « **Reply #34 on:** April 25, 2008, 03:53 AM »

Some more info on the blue coat color as we are having several litters in Europe with blue puppies and the carriers are spreading throughout breeding stock. Funny enough this seems to be a rather new problem to us as I have never heard of any blue puppy like three or four years ago and then they kept popping up all over...

Canine Coat color test at VetGen
http://www.vetgen.com/canine-coat-color.html

Interesting here is the D Locus
DD is non-carrier of dilute
Dd is carrier but not blue phenotype
dd is blue

We have a similar test in Germany but from the breeders who made it so far I have heard that it is not very reliable and results vary.

This German breeder had a litter with blue puppies and put a lot of info about the gene and testing on her page. Please scroll down for pics of the blue dogs
(sorry, only available in German)
http://www.of-moyo-kwa-ureno.de/dilute.htm

the University of Bern is doing some research at the moment
http://www.genetics.unibe.ch/content/rubrik/dilute/index_eng.html

Regards

Katja · « **Reply #35 on:** April 25, 2008, 04:59 AM »

Hi,
I don't think that it is a new problem, I do know fore sure it is a old problem, and I know fore sure that people will put them down and never talk about it. Now we have a new generation who will tell what they have we have good internet so that everyone can see now what you will have.
And when you do breed with a dog who has the bleu gene her or his kids don't nacesary will have the bleu gene, and we are very lucky we can test the bleu gen so that we can check if the male of female has it. So that you can breed, but wil not get the bleu ones.
Katja

NombekoRRs · « **Reply #36 on:** April 25, 2008, 06:35 AM »

Hi Katja,

you are probably right that it is not a new problem. Some blue genes come from older well established African lines, so it has to be in the breed for many generations now, probably even from the beginning.
I have no problem if people are breeding a dog with Dd to a dog with DD as long as breeders with Dd dogs are honest about it (like you

). We have more serious health problems in the breed today.

Cheers

Annette · « **Reply #37 on:** April 25, 2008, 06:50 AM »

Quote from: Katja on April 25, 2008, 04:59 AM

Hi,
I don't think that it is a new problem, I do know fore sure it is a old problem, and I know fore sure that people will put them down and never talk about it. Now we have a new generation who will tell what they have we have good internet so that everyone can see now what you will have.

I think this is correct. The same thing goes for ridgelessness, DS and probably kinked tails as well. There's more of it these days as a lot of breeders are more open about it.

caro · « **Reply #38 on:** April 25, 2008, 07:02 AM »

Kelley, you are right, if they can course then it isn't a DQ. However, the Elaboration of the Standard is quite specific when it comes to color and mentions only wheaten and it was that that I was thinking of not the actual Standard. Pity the two don't say the same thing, but since the Standard is what decides DQs that is why they can course and do everything but conformation.

Annette; Wasn't there a problem with blues in Sweden a while back. I seem to remember it was being blamed on an English dog, but I did some enquiring and actually have his pedigree somewhere and while in the UK he never produced any blues.
It was I think a long time ago.

Caroline

nana · « **Reply #39 on:** April 25, 2008, 07:24 AM »

Quote from: Porga on April 25, 2008, 02:50 AM

But, actually, anyone really interested in the breed should already bump on that videos.

I realize, Porga, that you didn't mind anything offending. But I don't think that that way for training dogs is correct for RRs and I do not think it is ethic. I can only see that a owner of dogs just to do PR for future pups (see his\her comments: We will have Ridgeback puppys soon. They are breed to catch pigs with only one dog. We only put one dog out at a time unless we are training new dogs. All the videos on Utube are just training dogs, you will have to buy the DVD to see the good stuff.)
I HAVE HAD an experience with my RR in traning for wild boar living at a traning base. And yes, I HAVE SEEN how heat was my RR! RRs don't bite their big game - please imagine that a trained in such way dog meets REALLY WILD BIG BOAR in the nearest forest! Not having any feeling of self-preservation (because he was SO trained) he just ...will be killed in one moment by a boar.
PS. Yes, I have had the experience BUT I realized that it is not my cup on tea! I am not a hunter and I am not going to become a hunter so it is not acceptable for me to do such trainings for the sake of just sport. It has been MY own experience and I have took MY decision which was resulting from MY experience. And I would like to say that I LOVE any kind of ETHIC hunting and I think that ethic huntings are much more better than conveyor raising animals and shipping them to abattoirs for stressing killing...
PS. A boar which my dog was training at was not hurted nor by my dog and any people.

I am SO sorry for my harshness...

Nana

malismum · « **Reply #40 on:** April 25, 2008, 07:57 AM »

Just saw the Utube video on hog training. Disgustingly cruel. Sorry.

Annette · « **Reply #41 on:** April 25, 2008, 09:07 AM »

Quote from: caro on April 25, 2008, 07:02 AM

Annette; Wasn't there a problem with blues in Sweden a while back. I seem to remember it was being blamed on an English dog, but I did some enquiring and actually have his pedigree somewhere and while in the UK he never produced any blues.
It was I think a long time ago.

Caroline

There was a litter a few years back with two or three blues. I can't remember which kennel though. It was just before I got so involved that I would have noticed the discussion.

Annette · « **Reply #42 on:** April 25, 2008, 09:10 AM »

Quote from: caro on April 25, 2008, 07:02 AM

Kelley, you are right, if they can course then it isn't a DQ.

What's DQ?

Lekana · « **Reply #43 on:** April 25, 2008, 09:16 AM »

Just my own quick .02 worth. Sable and brindle colors (with and without white) were at one time accepted. Honestly don’t know about blues and black and tans as those colors have been disputed as an “original” color. Yes, any color other than the various shades of wheaten CAN be shown because there is no color disqualification. The judge has the choice of simply not placing these dogs, or not awarding a ribbon to (in the case if there are less than 5 dogs in a class), or actually DQ’ing, or excusing these dogs due to lack of “type” per their interpretation of the standard. I knew of a GSD breeder whose dog, whose one ear didn’t want to stand erect being excused due to lack of “breed type.”

Regarding the video (and viewing a few others linked to that site)….like others, I was quite disgusted. Yep…let’s hold the hind feet of that “hawg” so our “dawgs” can rip it to pieces without giving that living, breathing creature a fighting chance. And let’s go in and cut the belly so it has “less fight” but doesn’t actually KILL IT, so we can further enjoy our dogs ripping apart its face. And of course, let’s show the blood-covered knife that used to cut the belly for the camera so prove what great hunters we are while the dogs are still eating the face of that living, breathing creature. A “great” hunter would have gone in and at least cut the throat, thus ending any undue torture of their quarry….given the fact that dispatching the quarry was their goal.

As I have said on MANY occasions, I have NO PROBLEM with hunting. This wasn’t hunting. This was a glorified video to showcase someone’s “bad ass” dogs ripping apart an animal that, once caught, was allowed to be terrorized and tortured, when it was CLEAR there was ample time and means to “dispatch” (meaning end that animal’s suffering) that quarry.

JMO,
Shara

kotchfam · « **Reply #44 on:** April 25, 2008, 09:35 AM »

Quote from: Annette on April 25, 2008, 09:10 AM

What's DQ?

Disqualification. The only disqualification Ridgebacks have is Ridgelessness.

--

c'mon folks. This is like one of those car crashes that everyone knows things are bad but they look anyhow.

We know alot of folks dont agree with it, please dont watch the video's if you havent already if you dont know whats involved with hog hunting with dogs.

It will disturb you.

Porga · « **Reply #45 on:** April 25, 2008, 09:49 AM »

Quote from: nana on April 25, 2008, 07:24 AM

I realize, Porga, that you didn't mind anything offending. But I don't think that that way for training dogs is correct for RRs and I do not think it is ethic. I can only see that a owner of dogs just to do PR for future pups (see his\her comments: We will have Ridgeback puppys soon. They are breed to catch pigs with only one dog. We only put one dog out at a time unless we are training new dogs. All the videos on Utube are just training dogs, you will have to buy the DVD to see the good stuff.)

Nana

Nana, I agree. I don't know why you get assumption that I support their methods?
Unfortunately, that video is search result of a term "hunting ridgeback" on Youtube. It is really sad that you can't find correct video representation of breed, (in todays world of multimedia and on most popular video service) and that this is actually first "real" hunting video that you get when you search that term, when you, of course disregard videos of some dog

showing how he is hunting mice, and flushing pheasants.
We might disagree with their methods, and they of course are doing disservice to the breed, but we should ask our self why there are no videos of correct representation of breed?

Regards

Igor

Lekana · « **Reply #46 on:** April 25, 2008, 10:16 AM »

<<c'mon folks. This is like one of those car crashes that everyone knows things are bad but they look anyhow.

We know alot of folks dont agree with it, please dont watch the video's if you havent already if you dont know whats involved with hog hunting with dogs. <<

Sorry, Kelly, have to disagree wtih you. There are people on this list, who are past STEWARDS on this forum that continually try to teach hunting, and the simple fact that "hunting" is a major "subject" on this forum, is WHY many of us, with an open mind, and wanting to learn is WHY so many of us viewed that video. Nobody EXPECTED a "car crash." We expected, what I'm sure we all believed to be a FAIR hunt, a true representation of how hogs are hunted.

Instead we were treated to dogs mauling a hog who's rear legs were being held by a human. Yeah....what a fair fight THAT is. I've already said on this list that my dogs have cornered and "bayed" such innocuous game as raccoons and possum. And the fact I removed my dogs from "that game" because I had no instrument to dispatch said game, I guess is too boring. I suppose if I had gone in and caught that game with a "catch pole" and inhibited their abiltiy to defend themselves and my dogs went in for the kill (without any risk of injury to themselves) that it would make for "better video."

To keep this subject related... I agree with Matthew , those dark dogs were no more purebred ridgebacks than any cur dog I can find at the local pound.

Shara

melissap · « **Reply #47 on:** April 25, 2008, 12:26 PM »

Quote from: NombekoRRs on April 25, 2008, 03:53 AM

Some more info on the blue coat color as we are having several litters in Europe with blue puppies and the carriers are spreading throughout breeding stock. Funny enough this seems to be a rather new problem to us as I have never heard of any blue puppy like three or four years ago and then they kept popping up all over...

Canine Coat color test at VetGen
http://www.vetgen.com/canine-coat-color.html

Interesting here is the D Locus
DD is non-carrier of dilute
Dd is carrier but not blue phenotype
dd is blue

We have a similar test in Germany but from the breeders who made it so far I have heard that it is not very reliable and results vary.

This German breeder had a litter with blue puppies and put a lot of info about the gene and testing on her page. Please scroll down for pics of the blue dogs
(sorry, only available in German)
http://www.of-moyo-kwa-ureno.de/dilute.htm

the University of Bern is doing some research at the moment
http://www.genetics.unibe.ch/content/rubrik/dilute/index_eng.html

Regards

Great Post kiki - Thank you for the links and info! Melissa

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #48 on:** April 25, 2008, 12:40 PM »

Quote from: NombekoRRs on April 25, 2008, 03:53 AM

We have a similar test in Germany but from the breeders who made it so far I have heard that it is not very reliable and results vary.
This German breeder had a litter with blue puppies and put a lot of info about the gene and testing on her page. Please scroll down for pics of the blue dogs
(sorry, only available in German)
http://www.of-moyo-kwa-ureno.de/dilute.htm
Regards

Kiki, I also heard that blue gene tests sometimes do not yield trustworthy results, but I guess with time maybe they can be altered to be more accurate. The links you provided are excellent - my German terminology is not the best, but still the article is nicely and clearly written!!! Thank you for sharing - I never saw it pop up in any search engines before!

Not to mention that the blue puppies are such darlings in the photos!!!

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #49 on:** April 25, 2008, 12:44 PM »

Quote from: Katja on April 25, 2008, 04:59 AM

Hi,
I don't think that it is a new problem, I do know fore sure it is a old problem, and I know fore sure that people will put them down and never talk about it. Now we have a new generation who will tell what they have we have good internet so that everyone can see now what you will have.
And when you do breed with a dog who has the bleu gene her or his kids don't nacesary will have the bleu gene, and we are very lucky we can test the bleu gen so that we can check if the male of female has it. So that you can breed, but wil not get the bleu ones.
Katja

Katja, I'm right on board with you thinking that it is not today's problem only, but that only now breeders choose to be completely open about their litters and anomalies within (even though I do not think that blue pup is an anomaly - it's normal, even if not correct). Actually, reading the history of blue weimaraners and how they were never accepted by FCI, but were exported to the States and accepted by AKC in conformation for a while, makes me wonder how the RR standard would have evolved, if there were blue RR pups imported to the States... It could be that if there were more blue pups at the time, blue color would have been deemed rare, but standard...

nana · « **Reply #50 on:** April 25, 2008, 01:13 PM »

Quote from: kotchfam on April 25, 2008, 09:35 AM

This is like one of those car crashes that everyone knows things are bad but they look anyhow.

We know alot of folks dont agree with it, please dont watch the video's if you havent already if you dont know whats involved with hog hunting with dogs.

It will disturb you.

NO NO NO!
I KNOW what is it really TRAINING for a boar - it is REALLY DANGEROUS for DOGS not for a boar! When your dog meets with a BIG (much bigger than a dog) impudent boar who can and DOES throw up a dog if he has not been careful and has approached very closely to a boar! NO ONE keeps a boar for his rear, NO ONE sticks and sticks him... BUT these trainings are NO TRAININGS - this is just silly and CRUEL boasting and I even could't imagine WHAT I could see there..... Of course I have watched the videos to the ending.... I am not a driveller and I can go through such things BUT it was not the same if I would have seen the true training.
Nana

Katja · « **Reply #51 on:** April 25, 2008, 04:52 PM »

Yes is not unormal, because in the early days, they showed some bleu ones and breed with them, just like with the Thia Ridgeback, there are also gray, black and brown ones, and mutipule crowns are also okey. But I do think when they set down the breed, that they make disisions what they really wanted, wich color, wich ridge, and than put that in a book, just like with the ridgeback, but the colour will be in the gene's, and pop out so now and than when they are further in the breed. But is that something to be shamed of, no I know fore sure not. I rather have bleu in my line than other strange or bad thinks.
But I hope more breeder will be open in this, and put down all faults on the site, so that we can learn from that combination, and not make the same faults as they did, or make the same combination as they did because the offspring were so good. We can all learn from ona a other, and put some ego away and say to the other one you did very well, I will make or I will have the same stud dog or combination as you do. That keeps the breed in good health I think, but maybe I am to fare in this.....I hope only some day...
Katja

shodyL · « **Reply #52 on:** April 25, 2008, 04:58 PM »

I agree Katja. In a perfect world, everyone would be open and honest with information. But we don't live in a perfect world.

It does seem that more and more breeders are moving in that direction. I also think it will be a great thing when the day comes that all faults are admitted, not hidden away, and everyone can learn from each other, like you say. It seems this would be in the ulimate best interest of the breed as a whole.

I know I have never bred, and am new to the breed. I can only imagine how hard and heartbreaking it would be to have bad things come up in a litter. I applaud all the brave breeders out there who no longer cull, but deal with thier less than perfect puppies in a kind and humane manner.

Katja · « **Reply #53 on:** April 25, 2008, 05:53 PM »

I mean Thai Ridgeback sorry..
Yes more breeders will go in that direction, just great!!! But some are affriad what other people think about them... but this is not about the breeder but fore the health of the ridgeback. And we are not mother nature..... luckely.
Katja

la_vista_baby · « **Reply #54 on:** April 26, 2008, 11:21 AM »

It takes a lot for a person to overcome kennel blindness and then even more to accept and be honest about negative issues of one's dogs. Too bad that many people put cosmetic faults, which do not affect the health of a dog, into the same pot as health/temperament faults, which change and often debilitate a dog's life quality. As Katja said, a breeder who is open about all the issues and faults, is the one to be respected and returned to in the future - not the one, who claims that there is NO faults in their lines, NO pet puppies, and NO unwanted recessives that pop out once in a while. Come on, noone has a PERFECT dog. I love to watch odd color pups grow up and be treated as a beloved pet - attend play dates, litter reunions and be photographed throughout life, and not like some deadly sin that has to be hidden and be ashamed of.

They are so pretty - so what if they cannot compete in conformation ring? In a dog's life and perception, shows do not determine the quality of their lives. As a matter of fact, to some it's the other way around.

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Author Topic: "Blue" RR? (Read 1219 times)

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