Author Topic: Kennel Training Tips (Read 1229 times)

jacksonpd · « **on:** October 06, 2009, 02:53 PM »

Hi,
My husband and I just got our RR on Saturday and kennel training has been very difficult for us. We live in an apartment and my husband cannot stand to put him away at night because he just cries. So he allows him to sleep beside our bed. However I feel like it would be good for him to get used to sleeping the kennel, according to books that I have read and advice from friends. It's just the noise factor that bothers him so much. During the day, I place his kennel in the spare bedroom and I put him in for 1-2 hours and he whines in the beginning but then stops. Does anyone have any advice for him to stay in w/o crying during at night?

melissap · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:06 PM »

Would it be a possibility to move the crate next to the bed?
It sounds like you have a great system durring the day & he quiets down quickly - Good for you for being persistant!

Moving it closer at night MAY help, but you may also have to ride it out a bit regarding his initial fuss over being confined - which like you have experienced durring the day will pass!

Hopefully, you will get more responses that will be helpful

Melissa

RhodieRidge · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:08 PM »

His kennel should become the best place for him to be in and you want to try to make him WANT to be in his kennel.

You can easily start this process by feeding him in his kennel. Also, randomly throughout the day you may want to throw a few treats in the kennel so he finds them and thinks *good things happen in this place*.

The more you cater to his whining, the more he will learn that whining only gets him what he wants and it will only get worse over time.

Also, leave some time-killing toys in his crate, like chew toys or food dispensing toys, something to occupy his time while in there and also make it fun for him.

You can also try teaching a "crate" command, getting him to walk into his crate and rewarding him for 1 step inside, 2 feet, all 4 feet, etc. And then gradually building that up that once he's inside hold the reward until he's inside for 10 seconds, 30 seconds, 1 min, 5 mins, etc etc.. generally just throwing a treat inside will be enough to get the dog in the crate where you can start rewarding (clicker training would be the easiest way to teach) But you can simply use a word in place of the clicker like "YES!" and then reward. The "YES" or clicker MARKS the behavior that you want. So the instant he puts one foot inside the crate you would MARK than and then give a cookie. For settling inside the crate you could MARK laying down, and gradually build to where you MARK after 5 seconds of laying still.

melissap · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:11 PM »

I was just going to head back and mention the treats and feeding to make the crate a happy place - Beat me to my edit, thanks Andrea!
Melissa

VRed · « **Reply #4 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:29 PM »

Our puppy cried in his crate for 4-5 nights non-stop when we got him - it was heartbreaking and very hard not to give in and let him out, but in the end it paid off. Do what others have suggested here, but also remember that even at the very young age they will do the best they can to outsmart and to train you to suit their needs

jacksonpd · « **Reply #5 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:33 PM »

Thank you so much for you comments! I just tried the treat technique, and he is sitting quietly in his kennel right now!!! I can't wait to share this with my husband! I have one more question to ask in regards to getting him used to the process. Is it a good idea to section half of the kennel off to defer him from "going potty" in the kennel? And since I have been putting him in the spare bedroom should I continue to keep him there or should I place him in our bedroom at night?

VRed · « **Reply #6 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:51 PM »

Will you hear your puppy cry when he needs to go outside if he is in the spare bedroom? He will probably start sleeping through the night soon, but I remember I was up 2-3 times every night to bring him outside to potty, for at least 3 weeks, if not longer. I have also had my puppy throw up in his crate at night a couple times (he wasn't sick - just something he ate) - would you hear that if he is in a separate bedroom? I felt safer having him in the same room with me, especially when he was that young. I am sure you will soon figure out what works best for you and your pup though. Oh, and for what it's worth, I did have a part of his crate sectioned off.

RhodieRidge · « **Reply #7 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:55 PM »

The room situation is really up to you. Either way you should be able to train him to be comfortable in his crate, REGUARDLESS of where his crate is. If your husband feels better having the dog near you when you sleep, then that may be in your room. If he doesnt care, then another room may work as well there. Although you should take into consideration that in the beginning, if the dog is able to see you he may whine more (since in the past it has worked to get him out). If he cant see you, it may help him with not whining. Then again, seeing you may make him more secure, as opposed to being alone in another room. You wont be able to know until you try. As he gets more comfortable in his crate and willing to sleep in it through the night, you can move it then with no problems. But remember, hes getting used to sleeping on your bed so if he sees your bed he may want to cry to get on it.

As far as sectioning off the crate, this is the fundamental principle behind crate training. If the crate is big enough, the dog will use one end to potty and sleep in the other end. A crate should be sized so that the dog has enough room to stand, lay down, and turn around in comfortably. You can probably give a couple more inches of freedom but large amounts of extra space may facilitate pottying IN his crate so keep that in mind. Dogs by nature do not want to soil where they sleep so when you confine the dog to a smaller space, they are forced to hold it until you let them out to go outside. (Unless like some of the dogs on here who pee on their bedding and then bunch it up in the corner of the kennel! lol)

Oh and if its easy for you, I would take out the section when training him to settle in his crate, but put in it at night when he sleeps or you leave him (for pottying purposes). But the extra room for him to get in and get used to it will probably help with training.

melissap · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:58 PM »

Nothing wrong with sectioning off the crate until he grows into it and Yes, it leaves less space for him to feel comfortable soiling. They "typically" do not like to be sleeping in the soiled areas.

I have always had the crate in my room, being "closer" may make it easier to quiet him quickly....it depends! Like Aima mentioned; it will be easier to hear him as well.

So what is the new pups name?

Sounds like you have a great start and good luck with continued sucess tonight!

rrmom · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2009, 04:50 PM »

Sounds like you have had a lot of good advice and I can tell you firsthand how those howls got to me. They do get over it however although you will feel like a basket case after having no sleep for a few days

Kumba knows to go into his crate when I get a special treat out, he will run in there like a lunatic. It is also kept open during the day while I am at home and he quite often goes in himself and has a nap. At night he is still crated because he does chew things he is not supposed to if left alone to his own devices. Good luck and best wishes with him. Pictures pictures pictures

kitoyogi · « **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2009, 06:28 PM »

There is a book called Crate Games that is supposed to be helpful with crate training.

RR's are pack animals and they like to be with their peeps. If you can move the crate in your bedroom that will be better but you can probably get him used to being in the other room in time.

I'm really no help otherwise because mine sleep in the bed with me at night. My pup (4.5mos) is crated during the day with no issues.

joecop · « **Reply #11 on:** October 06, 2009, 09:10 PM »

We don't crate Ziva nor Jasmine at night only when we are not home. But we also fed jasmine in her crate when she was a puppy for a while to get used to it. In the morning they know when I get up and get my keys they both head to their crates, of course they get a special treat. I have found them just laying in their crates during the course of they day, napping.

jacksonpd · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2009, 09:48 AM »

Hello Everyone,
All of your tips have been very helpful. Last night was...something. Jackson (my puppy) had a very hard time during the night. In the beginning he howled, after about 20 minutes of it I decided to try a method that I read in book. I caught him off guard during one of his fits and clapped my hands once followed by saying ENOUGH very loudly. This startled him but he began to get he picture quickly. He understood that I wasn't going to tolerate his whining all night. However I had to do this a number of times due to his frequent potty breaks. Once he came inside from the potty breaks, I had to repeat the same routine as before.
I am seeing the benefits of kennel training already. It good for Jackson to have a place of his own also it cuts down on accidents at night! Next I plan to try the Crate games, I think that is a great idea to try to make the crate more appealing outside of bribing him with treats. I feel like we are on the right track....And my husband will just have to be patient LOL.

*I tried to upload pictures, but an error message keeps appearing saying they are too large. I will keep trying!

Jampy · « **Reply #13 on:** October 08, 2009, 12:02 PM »

We have had Rolo for 5 days now and crate training was not bad at all. You'll have to act "cruel" to be kind. We have his crate in the our spare room and that is where it will stay, we found then when he whined we simply closed the door, I know sounds mean, but it really worked, he stopped whining about 10 minutes after the door was closed we then got back up and opened it and he was fast asleep. We use a lifestages crate so we have it divided off so he can't go potty in it unless he wants to sleep in it, it has been dry everynight and in the morning his first steps are outside to peeps and poops. We had a hard time and felt terrible to just let him whine and cry but I am certain that this lesson will only make hime a better adjusted adult dog.

Stick with a plan, keep it simple, and never back down.

best of luck.

Ferretchik · « **Reply #14 on:** October 10, 2009, 07:50 AM »

I really regret not crate training Maximus. He was attacked by another dog the second day we got him so my husband and I just kept him in bed with us (he had 16 sutures and 3 drains and was on all kinds of meds & pain killers). He's eight months old now. My husband is home with him ALL the time. Wherever he goes he takes all three dogs with him.

The biggest problem we're having is if my husband takes a nap during the day, Maximus will chew shoes or rip apart our hallway carpet. We don't leave our shoes out anymore, but about twice a week, there's a fresh bare spot in my hallway (and it's brand new carpet).

Maximus is a typical RR and very stubborn. A friend of my has a crate and has offered to loan it to us to try to crate train him now. Do you think we've missed the crate training window? I really think it would be a horrible fight to get him to crate train now.

Jampy · « **Reply #15 on:** October 10, 2009, 08:55 AM »

Quote from: Ferretchik on October 10, 2009, 07:50 AM

I really regret not crate training Maximus. He was attacked by another dog the second day we got him so my husband and I just kept him in bed with us (he had 16 sutures and 3 drains and was on all kinds of meds & pain killers). He's eight months old now. My husband is home with him ALL the time. Wherever he goes he takes all three dogs with him.

The biggest problem we're having is if my husband takes a nap during the day, Maximus will chew shoes or rip apart our hallway carpet. We don't leave our shoes out anymore, but about twice a week, there's a fresh bare spot in my hallway (and it's brand new carpet).

Maximus is a typical RR and very stubborn. A friend of my has a crate and has offered to loan it to us to try to crate train him now. Do you think we've missed the crate training window? I really think it would be a horrible fight to get him to crate train now.

I don't think it is ever to late, just start crate training as you would do for him if he was still a puppy. you will all be happier in the end, but be prepared for barking,whining and crying...

Don't give up and good luck !!

RhodieRidge · « **Reply #16 on:** October 10, 2009, 01:20 PM »

I agree, go for it!!

He's still a puppy. If not, you'll have 10+ years down the road of carpet ripping when ur gone. Better a few sleepless nights (maybe) to have 10+ peaceful years with no worries and no catering to the dogs, than having to deal with the problem on a weekly basis.

It might be a challenge though if only Max is crated and the other dogs are free in the house. He might be more whiney than normal.

Jampy · « **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2009, 07:29 PM »

Quote from: RhodieRidge on October 10, 2009, 01:20 PM

It might be a challenge though if only Max is crated and the other dogs are free in the house. He might be more whiney than normal.

Good point, you may want to consider putting him a room where you can close the door. "Out of sight, out of mind" worked for us and our pup, we have 3 cats and as long as the door to his room is closed he is happy, calm and quiet, but leave it open he gets upset seeing them roam while he is contained.

rrmom · « **Reply #18 on:** October 11, 2009, 12:21 AM »

ja but if he is kept in a room with the door closed isn't that the same as just being free and then he will rip up the carpet in the room or start chewing on the walls? just thinking out loud here. I have a friend who has 7 dogs, three are loose the others are crated. They eventually learned not to bother.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

rrnewbie · « **Reply #19 on:** October 11, 2009, 02:17 PM »

how do you guys 'block off' a big crate for when they are tiny pups?
a friend of mine with a 100+lb mastiff/lab mix has offered to give me her crate for our pup coming home in a couple weeks...and I don't really want to spend the money to get a smaller one that he'll just grow out of in a few months. What can we put in there to section it off that the pup won't chew through?

rrmom · « **Reply #20 on:** October 11, 2009, 03:00 PM »

I think Mike used boxes although Kumba would have eaten the boxes. Some use the metal separator that comes with the crate (if they have that kind) or you can put like a laundry basket turned upside down. We got the crate that came with a separator. It might pay you to get one that he grows into that comes with the separator.

RhodieRidge · « **Reply #21 on:** October 11, 2009, 04:18 PM »

The "lifestages" crates come with a panel that you can adjust the crate's size as they grow.

Anything metal of course would last if the dog decides to start chewing on it.

Me personally, I would drape a sheet inside of the crate. Tie 2 knots to the roof of the crate, drape it down through, and tie 2 knots at the base of the crate. Any leftover or loose fabric (depening on the size of sheet you use) could even be draped over the crate making a more "den" like atmosphere.

Quote from: rrmom on October 11, 2009, 12:21 AM

ja but if he is kept in a room with the door closed isn't that the same as just being free and then he will rip up the carpet in the room or start chewing on the walls?

I think both of us meant putting him, IN HIS CRATE, in another room, with the door closed.

rrmom · « **Reply #22 on:** October 11, 2009, 05:16 PM »

Quote from: RhodieRidge link=topic=6278.msg54696#msg54696 date=1255292285re.

I think both of us meant putting him, IN HIS CRATE, in another room, with the door closed.
[/quote

oh - all I read was putting him in the room. sorry I was so dense.

Jampy · « **Reply #23 on:** October 12, 2009, 08:40 AM »

Quote from: rrmom on October 11, 2009, 12:21 AM

ja but if he is kept in a room with the door closed isn't that the same as just being free and then he will rip up the carpet in the room or start chewing on the walls? just thinking out loud here. I have a friend who has 7 dogs, three are loose the others are crated. They eventually learned not to bother.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Sorry, I should have been more clear, in a crate, in a room, with the door closed. as for crates, the lifestages crate is a great investment you only have to make once, use the included divider and you can expand the are as your dog grows. Use anything you can to divide the crate as long as it cannot be chewed.

SMRT · « **Reply #24 on:** October 13, 2009, 03:58 PM »

A couple of things I've done to make the crate more appealing to the pup have been to drape blankets/sheets over it to make it more secluded and cozy/den-like, and I also added a warming mat underneath the crate for one corner so he can curl up and doze for hours. I definitely noticed a difference when I added that - he loves to curl up in there now (sometimes I would too!)

melissap · « **Reply #25 on:** October 13, 2009, 04:30 PM »

The crate cover is a great tip. I love the warming pad idea too

I'll bet that would go over extremely well!
Melissa

rrmom · « **Reply #26 on:** October 16, 2009, 12:54 AM »

Quote from: SMRT on October 13, 2009, 03:58 PM

A couple of things I've done to make the crate more appealing to the pup have been to drape blankets/sheets over it to make it more secluded and cozy/den-like, and I also added a warming mat underneath the crate for one corner so he can curl up and doze for hours. I definitely noticed a difference when I added that - he loves to curl up in there now (sometimes I would too!)

I have never heard of a warming mat that can be put under a crate - can you tell me more about them? seeing as Kumba eats any bed or blanket that is put in the crate he can't have one anymore and this warming pad sounds ideal as I do feel sorry for him.
tia

Keeper · « **Reply #27 on:** October 16, 2009, 12:54 PM »

there are several types, electric, batteries and this one that is Self-Warming
could also be used for camping.
Sandra

http://www.supercoolpets.com/archives/2009/09/self-warming_crate_pad.php

rrmom · « **Reply #28 on:** October 16, 2009, 06:01 PM »

oooh - you mean it goes inside the crate? that wouldn't do then because he eats every single bed that ever goes in his crate. I don't know why I thought it went under the crate, I must have read wrong again. Thats a pity, it sounded good while it lasted

RhodieRidge · « **Reply #29 on:** October 16, 2009, 06:16 PM »

RRMOM,

You could always fill up a few milk jugs with hot water before you go to bed and place them on either side of the crate. That way the warm air will radiate around the crate. Usually warming pads go between the crate and a crate pad since its not reccommended that a heating element of ANY kind is placed directly on the skin (that goes for humans too!!)

rrmom · « **Reply #30 on:** October 16, 2009, 06:20 PM »

oh, so if I put the pad between the crate and the plastic thingie then that will be okay? or if it had an electric cord thing he would probably eat the cord. I even put a quilt over the crate and he pulled it through the bars and ate that, bit by bit. He doesn't eat any other beds so I don't understand it. he has lots of toys in his crate for him to chew but for some reason he destroys the comfy part.

RhodieRidge · « **Reply #31 on:** October 16, 2009, 07:55 PM »

When I say "crate" I am referring to both the actual metal encagement, along with any pastic or rubber insertable "pan" that comes along with it. I dont think you could actually FIT a pad between the metal exterior of the crate and the plastic pan inside. Though I guess it depends on your crate whether thre pan is able to be lifted up inside the crate or not. If they can, then yes it could go under the pan.

rrmom · « **Reply #32 on:** October 16, 2009, 11:14 PM »

Sorry Andrea, you must think me completely dense. I tried to picture it in my head and that's what I came up with

I do apologise.

RhodieRidge · « **Reply #33 on:** October 17, 2009, 12:20 AM »

Lol..

No, I just wanted to clarify before you went out and purchased a heater only to realize your plan wouldnt work. Just lookin out for the wallets out there!

Keeper · « **Reply #34 on:** October 17, 2009, 12:41 PM »

Kathy, there are discs that can be heated in the Microwave and placed under the crate pan. This will generally last 6 to 8 hours of warmth. I put them under the pillows of the older girls in the winter.

If you turn the pan upside down there would be a small space under it where you could place either of the models I suggested. And I don't think your boy could reach either from under pan.

I too have a female who will totally destroy anything in her kennel run. I go through so much of the Sherpa fleece that I have started purchasing it by the bolt at the fabric store. Not sure what she slept on before she came to me...but she was already 5+ months old.

In the house she never touches any of the 10 dog beds and doesn't chew any covers on human beds either.

Sandra

SMRT · « **Reply #35 on:** October 17, 2009, 10:19 PM »

Sorry I haven't replied until now about what I'm doing -- there are obviously a lot of ways to do this, including heating up various items, normal heating pads, and other heating elements. Here's what I do, but everyone has a unique situation:

I am also an avid gardener, so in February/March every year I am starting seeds in trays/flats in my garage. Most seeds actually germinate in 70 degree soil, so they make seed warming pads to put underneath them. I don't have a normal "human" heating pad, and any old electric blankets would be torn up (as mentioned), so I use the seed warming pads! So, I put a double layer of aluminum foil beneath the pad, put the pad on, then set the crate (with tray) on top. The foil is just to reflect the heat upwards and not down into the wood flooring (no carpet) that the crate sits on. There may have been a slight warping of the plastic tray, but nothing major, and it is mine, so I don't really care.

I normally place 1 to 3 towels/blankets on top of the tray for Bombay to lay on, and when combined with the crate covering, creates a nice warm den for him. Every time I open the front door, I'm very jealous and want to crawl in there and sleep too. I think that's about it -- I leave it on 24/7 since it doesn't consume major amounts of electricity. The pad itself is about 1 foot by 2 feet - give or take. I put it under one corner of the crate, so Bombay can decide whether he wants to be warm or not.

Hope it helps!

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Author Topic: Kennel Training Tips (Read 1229 times)