Jumping up and biting me on walks

[JillMartin]

Hello everybody
Our little guy, Zulu, is seventeen weeks old now and he has developed a really worrisome habit. While out walking, Zulu will turn and jump up to bite me on my hips ( and lately, as he gets taller, my arms, chest and  my back). He still mouths in the house as well, but he's very easily corrected inside and inside his little nibbles aren't hard. Outside on walks, however, he often breaks skin, rips clothes and has reduced me to tears on a number of occasions.

 My first instinct was to correct this by stopping the walk and turning my back to him until he settled down. This doesn't seem to phase him at all though and he has even jumped up and bitten my back while I'm "ignoring him". Best case scenario, he just sniffs around until I resume the walk and does it again 5 minutes down the trail.
 
The trainer in our puppy class has witnessed the behavior and suggested I yelp loudly. Oddly enough, I think this makes it worse though, it seems to spur him on and excite him even more.
I've also tried to gently hold his mouth and say "no" firmly, but this has worked even less, because as I bend down to correct him and hold his snout I'm egging him on and putting myself in a prime position to get another pounce and bite from him.

I've even resorted to rolling him onto his side on the trail and holding him there until he calms, (which is about equally as embarrassing as having your sweet little puppy  rip open the side of your pants in front of groups of joggers and bikers ). This too doesn't seem to deter him for long and It doesn't seem like the kind of thing I should be doing 15 times on a 2 mile walk.

We are trying to do everything we can to make it clear to him that we are in charge. He sits and waits for his food and to be invited through doors and we have been taking him to his puppy classes twice a week. Zulu gets to run at a dog park almost everyday and we try to walk as far as I can stand on the trail as well.

I'm just having a really hard time figuring out how to stop this. A leash held tight to my hip makes him walk nicely next to me, but doesn't prevent him from jumping up TOWARD me. I also try to hold his leash out away from me so that I am out of his reach when I sense a nip coming, but at 4 months, he's already too strong for me to hold that position with one arm.

Any help would be so appreciated.
 Jill

[caro]

My sympathies, Jill.  I've been dealing with much the same problem except that it only happens now when Misha is running free.  Walking on a leash he seems to be able to keep himself under control, but when he starts running he loses it and charges and jumps.  A lot of the time I can just turn out of the way and he misses.  I have found that if I can grab his front feet when he jumps and squeeze until he screams (and he tends to be a drama queen in that everything that is even slightly painful is going to kill him!) he thinks twice about jumping on me again for about five minutes.  The period this works is getting longer however, and hopefully one of these days he will get the message.  A  knee in the chest will also bring him up short, but your timing has to be good or you won't make contact.  Another thing you could try is to carry a bottle of bitter apple and when he jumps on you spray him on the nose.  I tried water but that turned out to be a game to him, so I had to resort to the bitter apple.  Misha is now six months and thankfully he is getting better because he weighs quite a lot and I can't afford to have a missile hurtling at me at great speed.  So, at four months, this is something you need to get under control a.s.a.p.  As a small puppy the loud "ouch" will work, but when they are bigger, it's just not enough and you need to resort to other means to get your point across that you don't want him jumping on you.  I haven't used them but there are anti jumping harnesses you can get.  I would tend to use them though as a last resort.  Don't forget though when you have had a pleasant walk and he hasn't jumped on you, you need to reward him, but don't get him overexcited or he will start jumping again and you will be back to square one.

Caroline

[CA in TO]

Have you talked to your trainer at puppy class about this?

My first thought was to try to make walking nicely a positive experience. You say he sits for food. Try holding the lead in your away hand and keeping a treat (or  piece or kibble) in your close hand. He gets the treats after every "so" far. More often initially and then longer and longer durations/distances.

I know that rather than forcing dominance/rolling him, I would suggest requiring a good behaviour that I could then reward. Sit or down or even practicing "tricks" like shake-a-paw.

The important thing is that he gets great things when he does what you want. And yes, practice the raised leg to run into. You aren't going to be able to physically force him to do anything soon enough. He has to learn to want to do the right thing.

[caro]

I thought about that, walking with a treat in your hand and giving it when you have gone a distance without jumping up, but I have found that that actually will encourage the jumping because when they realize you have a treat in your hand, they immediately want to get at it and if the treat is not at eye level he is going to jump to get at your hand.  I can't keep treats in my pockets because all my dogs know that there may be something there and I can't tell you how many pockets I have had to replace or mend after they have been chewed--coats and jeans are particualrly vulnerable and it doesn't really matter if I am in them or not.  I think we have two very excitable puppies!!  Hopefully age will have a calming effect.  Meantime, we both need to get our message across and sometimes it may not be pretty, but ends up being a question of your safety or worrying about hurting your puppy's feelings.   I have found they are pretty forgiving, particularly when you show lots of love and praise when they do something right.

Caroline

[melissap]

Hi Jill,

I would put my knee up to keep him from jumping, tell Him "OFF" Once he is off, if he goes to jump up again, grab him by the scruff of his neck and tell him "NO Jump" "OFF"
Then hold his muzzle closed and TELL him "NO BITE"


Be Firm - but Fair


Then I would ask him to sit and give him a treat once he is under control Telling him "good sit" - Treat - then say "lets go" and prodeed with your walk.

You can use his leash to correct him with a pop release if it is up under his chin (rather than sitting too far down on his neck) so it is effective. When you are walking him, pay close attention to his body language and if he is getting ready to jump up correct him with the lead before he is jumps up - assertively and then continue on confidently - On your walks, start working in sits and turns into your routine to reinforce his focus on your commands and assert your self as the leader when you are on lead with him.

Teaching him commands that you can praise him for will be helpful in replacing the bad behavior with a good behavior.

I would stop letting him mouth you at all, even though it is not significant or painful when at home, you are setting the presidence that dictates him thinking this is acceptable. Any time he mouths, just hold his muzzle closed and tell him No - gently and give him a toy that you do want him to chew.

@ 17 weeks, you still have the upper hand on size and I would get it under control now while he is relatively young.

Good Luck
Melissa

[JillMartin]

Thank you all for the thoughtful suggestions, I really appreciate having people who know the breed well available to help with problems like this    

I've actually tried the treat route, it was the way we were instructed to teach a "nice walk" in our puppy class actually. In our particular case, as Caroline suggested, it didn't seem to work well. Zulu instead of walking politely to follow the treat like the other dogs, would get too excited and  lunge forward and jump up to grab it. In fact, instead of walking he would just hop forward the entire length of the exercise.
Also, I think catching it in time to knee him would take some working on because so far I have failed miserably at reacting fast enough to stop myself from being hurt.

 I'll most definitely try to stop and sit him every few feet, get him under control and then reward and I'll also get some bitter apple to keep on me if all else fails.

I'll keep ya posted!!!!
Jill

[caro]

Last night I took Misha to handling class with me.  He's getting a whole lot better about jumping up on me so as I was the only dog in the room I let him run around for a while before anybody else arrived.  Two of the trainers from the previous class were getting ready to leave and of course, he forgot his manners and jumped on them.  They stood stock still and turned their backs to him.  I am afraid it had no effect whatsoever.  Yes, I know this is the accepted way of dealing with this sort of unmannerly behavior, but in Misha's case, it served more to encourage him to run and charge.  It became a game.  So I had to get him on leash and then they left I am sure thinking what a badly mannered dog he was.  But really what they did just egged him on.  He was overly excited and gettng more so by the minute.  When others arrived he greeted them in a much more mannerly fashion because I had calmed him down by then.  These trainers knew that Misha was a puppy; what I didn't understand is why they didn't realize he was getting himself worked up like an overexcited child and treat him as they would an overexcited child.  What they did just exacerbated the problem.
My point being that there is never a hard and fast rule of how to deal with certain behaviors.  Each case has to be evaluated separately and dealt with according to how the dog responds.
Caroline

[melissap]

Jill,
I am glad you have found the advice helpful 
I agree with Caroline in that every dog needs to be assessed differently - and implementing some obedience commands will help you to que in on his signals and keep him in tune with you.

Learning to stay "ahead" of his antics and by watching his body language so you can be proactive in correcting him, will work wonders.

It is about building a relationship with him and asserting your self as a strong leader that will make all the difference in nipping this in the  bud 

Melissa

[Matt]

Huckleberry, 10.5 months, does excatly the same thing, out of no where on a walk, on leash or free, he will jump, bite, growl, and be a general ass.  Turning my back only made him run in circles to bite my shoulder, saying 'no' was spit in the wind.  I would also grab him, mid jump, and put him on his side, usually with a hell of a fight, and wait for calm.  I would grab his mouth, scruff his neck, yelp, ingnore, distract with treats or food, nothing worked.  You've got to remember these hounds were bred to harass and wear down large dangerous game, to death, a human stands little or no chance winning that game.  But a week ago I found the answer, I tied his leash to a tree and walked away. That took the fight right out of him. He was too confused to fight the leash, just looked at me with that 'where are you going' look.  I walked maybe 20 feet, stood with my back to him for 60 seconds.  Turned around, told him to sit, 3 minutes later he did it and as soon as his little butt hit the ground I gave him love and praise like he saved a drowning child.  He was good for another 15 minutes, and started his attack again, tied to a tree again, he sat on his own before I got 10 feet away, got some more love and off we went. 
Its not perfect, when he's off leash and starts this, he's damn hard to catch, but as soon as he's lashed to a tree or fence, or anything, even my belt, he gives up, sits down, and I stand over him like I'm tough stuff, and let him off.
I invested a heavy duty carabiner, cliped it on the loop on the end of the leash, that makes it quick and easy to tie him off.  It is the only thing that has worked for me. 

[vandal]

WE had a similar problem with Blaze, he continually mouthed at home and when we were out walking would behave until we stopped to talk to friends then he start jumping at us and mouthing. Our dog trainer suggested that we pin him to show dominance at that point we left and didn't come back to the classes whilst that may work on some dogs Ridgebacks will not respond well to it in the long run.  After speaking with an ex-dog handler who served with me we decided that he was acting out like a typical toddler and that we were just reinforcing his attention seeking.  We started carrying an natural orange drink container (mostly empty) and just as he jumped quickly squeezed it next to his head.  the noise and puff of vapour were enough to put him off his stride and give him something to ponder!  now he has grown out of the jumping / mouthing outdoors although he still likes a 'comfort' nibble on my hand when I come in from work 

[JillMartin]

Hey everyone! I've been working on Zulu's jumping and biting since my last post...Zulu, go figure is pretty fond of bitter apple spray, so that was a bust    The goofball would sit and give paw when he saw the bottle like it was a treat! Walking on the trail with it only made him jump up to try and get at it.
But, luckily, something Caroline said struck me. She pointed out that what I was dealing with was a very excitable dog, so I decided the ticket would be to lower the excitement that I had built up around our walks. I first stopped getting him riled up beforehand.  I admit I used to think it was cute that Zulu knew what "walk" meant and would run around the house upon hearing it, bring me his leash and paw at the door; all I was doing was amping him up before we even got out the door. Then I got a gentle leader and that REALLY took the wind out of his sails. He is used to wearing it now, but I think having the added control helps keep his energy at manageable level. Third, I stopped looking at him and talking to him on walks all together and walked very  very slowly and kept it up until we got through a few good long walks without incident. I can now walk at a normal pace and praise him every so often, but I'm careful not to do it in my normal, high pitched, whatta good boy! voice. In general, we try to keep walks very very mellow so Zulu can control himself and he's responded very well.
Thanks again everyone!
Jill   

[melissap]

  This is great news Jill, I am glad you found a way to calm your behavior and lead him in a positive way!

Congrats on your success and knowing what your pup needed ~

Melissa

[caro]

That's great, Jill.  I am glad we were able to make helpful suggestions.  Yes, the Gentle Leader performs miracles.
Caroline