How long did it take you to leash train?

[Safi]

Hi Pam,
   Safi's problem at the dog park wasn't so much recall as it was not wanting to leave even when leashed Initially she would run back into the park, and then it was stop dead and not go within 200 ft of the exit and now its mostly just getting through the open gate to the parking lot. One thing I was told a while back was to get them used to being leashed so that they know it doesn't always mean having to leave. So call them, leash them .. walk them for a little and then let them off again. Seemed to work for us. As for recall.. its just one of those things that happened over time as we got a stronger bond with Safi. I'm sure there has to be better/faster ways. Right now she usually wont go out of our sight when offleash and she usually comes like a bullet if I call her and she has been out of sight too long. A foxpro whistle is great if they are not close and got Safi excited enough to come back and see what it was.

  Nelson will figure it all out .. Consistency and rewarding him in different ways will get results (either treat or play.. something that will get him waggly). If Safi got a little too out of hand or really didn't listen when she really needed to .. then I did flip her on her side and put her in submission.. keeping her on her side until she relaxed. Ive only ever had to do that less than a dozen times since we have had her .. but she responded well to the correction.

  If you can find a large fenced area that is not too barren and has some distractions .. its a good place to practice off leash recall. Even having another dog along that does have good recall could help. Wish I could remember who said .. "to teach perfect recall .. call them as they are running towards you" I found these rules on a uk web site

1. Never call your puppy unless he is already coming towards you
2. Never chase your puppy
3. Do not test your puppy

You can probably find the article The Puppy Recall by Pippa Mattinson

Steve

[NalaSA]

Hi Pam,

Nice work! sounds like it's paying off.  Incredibly, Nala has never pulled me down or knocked me over.  I think people always wonder how I can handle a dog as big as her! It's as if she knows I'm small and is extra careful with me.  I always never gave her any attention when I came home until she was calm and in a sit so maybe she knows from that?  However that hasn't translated to everyone in my family.  She has knocked over my brother and mother in law before- it's something we're still trying to work on but it's hard when other people in your family don't follow my rules (ie don't reward the dog for unwanted behaviours!).

As for excitement when approaching other dogs on leash, as soon as I see another dog coming I try to get her attention (eye contact with Watch Me, or Leave It to get her to whip her head around back to me).  Depending on where we are, what her state of mind is, how the other dog is reacting, I may choose to put some distance between us and the other dog by walking around something or just crossing the road while I keep her eyes on me.  This is successful probably 90% of the time.  If everything is in a good place (both dogs calm, it's a place she knows, and she's exhibited calm behaviour), I'll allow her and the other dog to sniff bottoms and say hello.  Of course, things don't always happen this way - people approach us before I can make a move, or there's no where to "escape".  I am just highly aware of the situation though because if I don't manage it, she's likely to lunge first.  She used to also lunge at crows but that's under control now (she looks at me automatically if she sees a crow) however squirrels is a different thing!  It did take a while for her to respect and trust the leash - I was just happy when she finally stopped attacking and biting it.

It's funny how different they react on-leash to off.  At the beach and on trails off leash, she's fine with greeting other dogs.  She doesn't feel as trapped or threatened if she doesn't like the other dog.  As for recall, it took a while to get to a point where she's better with it in the middle of a rough/exciting play session.  I try to call her back every now and then when she's playing with another dog and lightly take her collar "Gotcha" then treat her.  After that, I say "Go Play" and off she goes again.  That is helping.  Her recall when she's not overly excited is very dependable.

Liv & Nala

[NalaSA]

Pam,

Sorry me again =) I just read that Nelson had ripped some of your clothes as a 3 month old and I just wanted to say I can SO relate to that!! Nala had wrecked a few pairs of tights and sweats for us doing the same thing.  Ahhh those puppy growing pains.   I also saw you said he goes crazy for treats.  I always do walk with some treats just in case I need that attention right away.  I know you said he gets even more wild when you have them but I think Steve's advice about asking him to wait patiently for his treats before he gets them will help with that.

Steve - you mentioned something about 3 rules on a UK website.  What does it mean "Never test your puppy?"

Liv & Nala

[Safi]

Hi Liv
   I guess I need to read through a bit more .. possibly dont call your puppy unless your going to reward them somehow? Or dont constantly call them to you perhaps?

Steve

[efoley]

Hi Liv,

I think the never test rule has to do with the stages of training. So start the recall without distractions and gradually move to more difficult situations but always on a long lead or other controlled mechanism until you are sure the recall is reliable. Otherwise you risk training your puppy into ignoring you. As a bad example Cisko now thinks a very fun game is to run away, have us call his name, and then chase him down...

Elena

[Ari_RR]

Yeah.. Recall is a huge problem. I have ordered 50 ft training rope, should be arriving any day. But still, what they do and how they behave on leash differs from off leash, so I don't know.. A long way from comfort zone..

Eugene

[Safi]

Found the reference on testing .. makes sense.

Leave testing for later


If you test your puppy by calling his name when he is not in the act of coming towards you, and he does not come, you will damage all your good work by teaching the pup that it is possible for the recall command to be ignored.  This early play learning should not include any testing, it is about conditioning. You are laying the foundations for a perfect recall in the weeks to come. Meanwhile if you need your pup to come to you, attract his attention with a hand clap, and make off in the opposite direction. He will soon come trotting after you.

If anyone would like the link for the whole article .. send me message and I can pass it on. I seem to recall I can not post some links on here without the owners permission.

Steve

[hannibal]

When I first got my Hannibal, we went to the ridgeback training grounds near the city to watch the older dogs train and get socialized  I remember sitting there with my little puppy on my lap and look at the attempts to train the adult RRs. And I have to say I was quite horrified. They were jumping on their owners, barking at them and growling, tearing loose and attacking eachother, refusing to move, refusing to acknowledge the presence of their owners or, simply, knock them over - male and females alike. And I looked down at the sweet little puppy in my lap and thought "what have I gotten myself into?" Later I did notice that there was also a large number of dogs behaving perfectly 

But that experience made me decide that Hannibal would never become like those dogs. Especially since I'm quite petite too and Hannibal is a large male. Actually, we weigh pretty much the same. During his initial leash training I must admit I thought we would never make it as he threw all kinds of tantrums but he's now 17 months old and perfect I made it by never slacking. If I wanted a certain behaviour, I always wanted it. He has never ever been allowed to jump up or pull on the leash, or refuse to go anywhere, or even take his dinner without my saying GO; I have always corrected his behaviour each and every time he was off. So now he just doesn't see the point of doing things I don't agree with. Oh, and by correcting him I mean doing pretty much what you've started doing now - changing directions and such He likes treats, hugs, and kisses and playing with ropes and stuff so I have done lots of playing and rewarding. He has never gotten what he wanted out of unwanted behaviour but I have always been kind, happy, and understanding, of course. Equal amounts of love and consistency

As for the recall it is quite important for me as I live on a farm with lots of other animals and Hannibal has to answer immediately no matter the situation (say a horse gets loose or deers are running by) so I have practiced this over and over. What works for me is to reward Hannibal for staying close to me and keep checking back with me regularly to see if I should want something from him. I always make sure that I have treats or toys with me that Hannibal finds absolutely delicious/fun. His taste seems to change all the time as do my treats When I'm just training, I will call him only when I'm confident he will react. Then I reward him lavishly; 5 or 6 treats and a kiss on the nose. I then use my command for ending an excercise (in my case it's FREE as in ok, you're free to go). I have used this command to avoid him obsessing over treats because it's all over after that word And when I call him, he ALWAYS has to answer, not once have I let it (or him) go. And I think this is important too.

Best of luck with Nelson, sounds like you're doing great already 

[Ari_RR]

And when I call him, he ALWAYS has to answer, not once have I let it (or him) go. And I think this is important too.

thanks, that was a very encouraging post! But what does mean in practice, how do you make sure that he ALWAYS answers? what I have with Ari is that the value of the treats goes down in proportion with the value of the environment.. I haven't found a treat yet that can compete with even some scents in the woods, never mind a treat that has higher value then chasing a deer..
So you call the puppy, he pretends that he doesn't hear and keeps his nose glued to something in a pile of leaves..  Then what??

[hannibal]

Well - I started recall training when Hannibal was 9 weeks old and in the beginning, I only called when he was coming towards me already and when I knew that he would respond - as advised above. I didn't take him anywhere where it would be neccessary for me to be able to control him off the leash until I was absolutely certain that he would come to me immediately. If I were to re-train a dog that didn't respond, I'd go back to basics I wouldn't put him in another situation where he could get any sort of excitement out of disobeying me. I know, I know - not easily done...lol - Also, I would get started on getting his attention. I used a clicker for this. Every time he looks at me, I click and reward him. This has ensured that he sticks around at all times. Even if he doesn't want a treat during some excitement, he still remembers that I'm cool to hang with - for some reason I don't really use a clicker for anything else...

I also think it all comes down to what you expect of the dog. When I decided that Hannibal was going to be perfectly well behaved, I fully expected him to be so. In every situation we have ever tackled together, I have expected him to behave perfectly. So he has. I think it has something to with exuding confidence because we all know how dogs will pick up on how we feel If I present Hannibal with a new task thinking he's NEVER gonna get it right, chances are he probably won't. If I'm nervous, he will be alert and unwilling, and so on. So try to exude "I have a perfect dog" I learned this from training stallions for breeding situations (they can get seriously dangerous for everyone involved) and since I'm just a girl I have to radiate high self esteem and tell the stallion that "I got this" - that I own the situation completely - without getting anywhere near a fight that I will surely loose.

I have a border collie and a RR. What I have found is that the BC responds to my recall "because I say so" whereas the RR responds because he thinks I'm cool and might have point. In order to work with Hannibal I've had to convince him that I get the best ideas and that I'm more fun and have more tasty things to offer than anything he can find elsewhere. Which I don't, of course So the secret lies in the "convince him" part

If Hannibal one day did not respond to my recall, I'd pretend to have found something insanely interesting - cheering, laughing, jumping and running in the opposite direction. He would want to come see what all the fuzz was about And then I'd play with him and stuff him with treats.

What treats have you tried? Hannibal seems to be especially fond of dried liver, it smells terribly but what do I know Does Ari have a toy he's obsessing over? Hannibal loves carrying stuff for me so I often reward him by letting him carry the newspaper or his own blanket. Or play with a plastic bottle. He LOVES bottles. I just have to get it back from him before he can bite through

Another trick is to teach him some useful commands that you can throw at him instead of a recall. When he's excited about something and maybe even going into hunting mode, the last thing he wants is to break it off and turn around. But he's also a dog, they like team work. I bet he wishes you'd run through the forest WITH him I have taught Hannibal to STAND, STAY and FREEZE. So if he sees - say deer - I don't call his name, I say FREEZE to make him think I'm in on it. He wants us to hunt in a pack and he loves it when I seem to be interested. So I say STAY and creep closer. I walk up to him and pretend to be stalking deer as well, him shaking in excitement. And then I grab hold of his collar and tell him how awesome he is while the deer escapes I have success with this because he plays the stalking game with the BC. He will lie in wait for his playmate to come closer and then (at my signal) he will "attack". Of course, it's just fun and games and the collie is totally in on it, it just gives Hannibal the illusion that we're hunting together, and he thinks it's super awesome that I call the shots.


Here he is under the FREEZE command with 4 deers in an open field

Wow, look at me typing away Sorry about the novel - hope just a fraction of it can come in useful Training with ridgebacks sure is inspiring

[caro]

Its very important to learn to read your own dog.  There is no generalizing with Ridgebacks.  Some live to please their owner, some are super independent and cannot be relied upon to listen when there is something to be tracked and chased, and some simply have no interest in hunting.  I've had one of each and some in between.  The hunters while seeming to be well trained and responsive to commands, will become stone deaf if they see something that their heritage and instincts tell them they need to chase; you need to recognize that if you have one of these, it is wisest to always keep them on a long line.  It gives them freedom but it also gives you control if they decide to take off and can save their lives if there is a busy road nearby. 

Caroline

[pamnelson]

I just read that Nelson had ripped some of your clothes as a 3 month old and I just wanted to say I can SO relate to that!! Nala had wrecked a few pairs of tights and sweats for us doing the same thing.  Ahhh those puppy growing pains.   

Ugh.  The clothes grabbing was terrible!  Two down jackets, two pairs of leggings and two pairs of jeans.  We are finally through this phase but I thought it would never end.  Phew!

Pam

[pamnelson]

Fantastic responses!!!  Someone mentioned this same kind of thing to me.  They said when I see someone coming, I should put Nelson in a sit/watch me and when he's focused on me, start pumping him full of treats until the distraction passes.  Living in Boulder, runners and cyclists are all over the place and unfortunately, are Nelson's Achilles heel (they are clearly having way more fun than we are simply walking).  I suppose that if I can convince him that I am way cooler than anything else that comes along, as you said, he will pay attention to me eventually rather than the passing distraction without tons of treats (but with treats in reserve for when the ultimate distraction comes along...a group of runners with their dogs?).  I love the idea of simply expecting him to be a great dog.  In thinking about it, I think you're absolutely right!  As of a few days ago, Nelson hadn't really developed a good way of communicating to us that he had to go out.  I mentioned the possibility of using a bell when I was talking with my dad and he said there's little to no chance that I can get that to work.  WELL, I taught Nelson to 'touch' my hand and moved him to the bell a few days ago.  After a few rings and me squealing 'Outside!!' and nearly doing cartwheels, I think he's got it!  Since I wanted to prove that he could do it, I think I sent the message that I 'expect' him to do it.  I'll try to exude the same kind of confidence when we're out walking.  Just might work!

Thanks also for the tips on recall!  I'm sure this one will takes lots of time and work, but we are ready!

Pam

[pamnelson]

Update:

Nelson has been doing really well on his walks and practicing a sit/stay especially when children pass has been great. He mostly just shows vague interest in other people when we are hiking but still needs some redirection when it comes to kids running by and other dogs, especially when they are off leash.

On a side note, the bell training went really well though somehow the bell has come to mean not only "please let me out so I can pee" but also "I just really want to see what Dan is doing in the garage". Sometimes it also means "Boy, it looks really nice out there.  Perhaps it would be nice to go out and sniff the air a bit".  We are working on refining this. 

Thanks again for all of your advice!
Pam

[hannibal]

So glad to hear this, good job! Really interesting with the bell, sounds like your little Nelson is very smart I might try the bell thing too now after hearing about your success.. Hannibal doesn't really communicate that he wants to go out either, I can usually tell by his activity level but it would be nice just to hear the bell!